Toshiba's Cell TV

Discussion in 'CellPerformance@B3D' started by patsu, Feb 26, 2008.

  1. Color me Dan

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    I thought I'd throw this Engadget coverage of the CELL TV press event into the mix, apparently the Cell TV is going to convert 2D to 3D in real time if I understood it correctly. Here is yet another, more readable, link. Like Carl B I'm wondering what iteration of the cell technology they're using. A PS3 cell chip sounds like a costly proposition.

    I really hope 3D takes off in a big way, though I'm sad it happened right after most people finally moved over to HDTVs; Something which will inevitably slow the adoption rate.
     
  2. Carl B

    Carl B Friends call me xbd
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    The post where I was wondering Spurs vs Cell is from 2008 though. Post #12 onwards is based on Engadget's spec run-down from yesterday. I have a feeling it is the full Cell in this situation, though it could end up being SPURS still I guess.
     
  3. Color me Dan

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    :embarrased: I didn't check the date. Or read your post thoroughly. I hate it when I do that. I'm sorry for the useless post.
     
  4. Carl B

    Carl B Friends call me xbd
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    Not useless at all, since you actually put the links up. :)
     
  5. Color me Dan

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    I guess that's something, You're right hehe. It's going to be interesting to know what sort of CPU is in there, and entire Cell chip as in the PS3 is a lot of power for a TV. I don't have a clue as to how computationally expensive it is to transform 2D to 3D (My guess? Very.) but will an entire Cell be needed? Thoughts that pop into my head range from thermal issues to Linux running on it, all in a jumbled and not necessarily constructive way ;-)
     
  6. Shifty Geezer

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    The Cell is housed in an external box, so thermal issues can be addressed. All reports are of an 8 core processor, whereas SPURSEngine is 4 SPUs AFAIK, which pretty much seals it. It's also the same processor used to drive the high-end display with its multitudinous video streams, so the peak processing requirement of the architecture will need the full Cell. I suppose if their transformation engine scales well, they could downclock the Cell and use more SPUs. But we've been given a clockspeed of 3.2 GHz. At the end of the day, it's just a monster!
     
  7. Color me Dan

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    Since there was no mention of the "Cell TV" having to use a separate box on Engadget I was under the impression that they were selling one high end "Cell TV" with inbuilt Cell and a separate Cell box for use with other TVs. Could you provide some links? I know Engadget isn't the be-all-end-all news site so I'm not contesting your information.
     
  8. Shifty Geezer

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    This image shows the large external box we saw in the original Cell TV from months back, and Google images just shows more of the same.
     
  9. patsu

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    Toshiba highlighted Cell TV in CES 2010:
    http://www.itproportal.com/portal/n...se-ps3s-cell-processor-tv-sets/#ixzz0bvbZaC4S

     
  10. Shifty Geezer

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    Full Cell confirmed. Nice it see it finally breaking out into CE devices!
    Are they including their virtual makeover application? ;)

    An important point for me is low lag. If you have to go through that media box, what sort of image latencies are going to impact your console gaming? It'd be nice if they addressed this, so your ultimate TV doesn't come with a pretty crippling Achille's Heel that frustrates you.

    That said, it's overkill and at odds with the HD consoles. These things are already media servers. It makes no sense to have a TV that integrates it. Looks like resolution+ upscaling will come with too much redundant cost to be worthwhile for console owners.
     
  11. Xenus

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    I just want the media box. I don't need their tv.
     
  12. green.pixel

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    :roll: Looks like 2005 all over again. :lol: :
    With recent GoW3 HDR lighting "only possible on PS3" statements, PR guys are on fire. ;)
     
  13. Shifty Geezer

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    In terms of useable calculation throughput and what most people have as a desktop computer, it's a fairly accurate figure.
     
  14. Arwin

    Arwin Now Officially a Top 10 Poster
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    But the Cell technology is actually in the TV itself. I think it is wise to see the TV and box apart from each other and value them each for what they're worth.
     
  15. green.pixel

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    Well, that's the thing. You can have the cheapest Atom desktop or Nehalem + AMD Cypress laying around. So, they should be a little bit more accurate, e.g., "it's X times faster than you Y CPU/GPU", IMO, not just typical marketing guys.
     
  16. Shifty Geezer

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    If you can't buy them as separates, the value proposition remains down for console owners using their consoles as media devices.

    But it wasn't a technical presentation! It was a ball-park figure, and as far as ball park figures go it's accurate. Unless you have reason to think the average home PC CPU is pushing well above 20 GFlops, the 10x processing power rating is accurate. Throw in total system processing including GPU and it gets hideously complicated such that comparisons of this ilk are nigh impossible (hence the creation of benchmarking software).

    The purpose of the bullet point is to communicate in terms Joe Public will understand that there is a Fast Processor in the TV. Anyone bothered about a lack of technical accuracy should perhaps first launch a campaign against contrast ratios and refresh rate figures which are far more misleading!
     
  17. Arwin

    Arwin Now Officially a Top 10 Poster
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    That's a big if! I have no indication that suggests you won't be able to.
     
  18. Neb

    Neb Iron "BEAST" Man
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    Yup, the reason to not specify CPU/GPU is becouse it then would not favor them for their promotion. Not to say Cell isn't very good at this. And then Flops alone are not the be all end all metric and many comparisions tend to be based on different programs/algorithms with different output quality and usually non SSE use or other CPU extension to get desired results to favor marketed product. And then at what task(s)?

    Anyone, 'TV-SHOP'? :razz:

    But otherwise the TV as a whole is well equipped and quite luxury. Price point seems quite decent for what you get IMO. :smile:
     
    #38 Neb, Jan 8, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 10, 2010
  19. patsu

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    One point to note... the presentation was transcribed by the attendee. The original slide may have better context: The comparison may be made in reference to a desktop CPU at similar price point and power usage.

    In this case, I think the news that Toshiba is still continuing its push for Cell is interesting. We know cell is very suitable for AV processing, especially open-ended ones (like adding 2D->3D conversion). Was hunting for the original slides. Could only find this video on realtime 2D->3D conversion (using Cell of course).



    As per usual, need to see the tech myself to appreciate its impact and accuracy.
     
  20. green.pixel

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    I would still buy Panasonic's PDPs or the ultimate solution, Pio's Kuro 9G. If I had the money for all of them in this price range, that is. :grin:

    Cell TV still doesn't adress main issues of LCD TV tech. But sure, the 3TB drive + DVR are very nice features to have.

    Btw, does anyone know what the estimated price will be?
     
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