The Way its Meant to be Reviewed?

Discussion in 'Beyond3D News' started by Dave Baumann, Dec 8, 2003.

  1. Dave Baumann

    Dave Baumann Gamerscore Wh...
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    I would estimate that the F-Buffer played almost no part in peoples decision to buy 9800 or not. The only thing that is important for the puchase of 9800 (and 5900) was the performance of your current board. I'd guess the number of users moving from 9700 to 9800 was fairly minimal and even then the F-Buffer would have played no consideration in that.
     
  2. Ilfirin

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    Heh. I almost had ATI send me a 9800 just for the F-Buffer. But then they told me that they had no intention of supporting it in D3D (and that even support outside of D3D would be too far off to matter), so I stuck with my 9700Pro.
     
  3. Doomtrooper

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  4. Doomtrooper

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    http://hypothermia.gamershardware.com/nv_bs.htm
     
  5. MaxPower_NVN

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    I speak for myself and my experiences. I have never experienced anything remotely like what was claimed in the story from your link. I don't know much about the story other than I think that's from years ago; not recent news. Maybe Kyle can elaborate but I'm iin no position to do so.
     
  6. Tim Murray

    Tim Murray the Windom Earle of mobile SOCs
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    To the people that know, of course it played no role. But to the less-informed? It's another feature, and features are automagically good, regardless of whether or not they actually do anything! For example, I was on a conference call with NV workstation PR along with someone from an unnamed website regarding the Quadro 3000 cards. The NV PR guys neared the end of their presentation, and they mentioned using shaders in workstation apps. They ask if we had any questions, and the other guy asked them what they think about the F-buffer and whether the card had any F-buffer-like features. This was met with a "Dude, what the fuck are you blabbering about," only more politely than that. And it wasn't some tiny website, and I would imagine that the guy wasn't a rabid ATI fanboy since he was getting prerelease information.

    So yeah. People will buy stuff based on marketing buzzwords (if they didn't, would PC manufacturers still say, "Pentium 4 with HYPERTHREADING!!!" in every ad? I'm not saying that hyperthreadng is useless, I'm saying that the vast majority of people have no idea what it means and would probably choose the P4 with HT simply because HT might be useful).
     
  7. Ilfirin

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    Well, the F-Buffer is a completely legit auto-multipassing system that is most definitaly NOT just a marketting buzzword. What makes it a gimmick has nothing to do with the F-Buffer itself, it has to do with it not being exposed in any current API/non-beta driver.
     
  8. Arun

    Arun Unknown.
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    Well let's not say the F-Buffer is useless. That's simply not right. It's a pretty cool technology IMO; not just something crucial or particularly useful right now.


    Uttar
     
  9. Tim Murray

    Tim Murray the Windom Earle of mobile SOCs
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    Precisely my point. It has a purpose, sure. But right now, it does absolutely nothing. But if a box has a fancy word, people will look at it and think, "Ooh! F-Buffer! That must... do something!" You can say exactly the same thing about UltraShadow.
     
  10. Ilfirin

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    I wouldn't exactly call one of the single most demanded features (to be able to write unlimited length shaders) not "particularly useful right now". I know tons of people that would kill for it to be implemented. But again, until they do, sure it's a gimmick.

    UltraShadow, on the other hand, no one really cares about :oops:
     
  11. Arun

    Arun Unknown.
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    Isn't the F-Buffer used to artificially increase the maximum PS length in the R420, anyway?


    Uttar
     
  12. Dave Baumann

    Dave Baumann Gamerscore Wh...
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  13. Tim Murray

    Tim Murray the Windom Earle of mobile SOCs
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    If the F-buffer really is that important, then why haven't they exposed it in a non-beta driver yet? I read the launch reviews of R350, and some of them went on and on about the Magical F-Buffer, but here we are, what, nine months later? And still, no F-buffer.

    So yeah, I do consider it a marketing buzzword, and until it's exposed, it will remain a marketing buzzword.
     
  14. Tim Murray

    Tim Murray the Windom Earle of mobile SOCs
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    Does that mean we know the maximum shader length for R420 then?
     
  15. digitalwanderer

    digitalwanderer Dangerously Mirthful
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    No.
    Well, at least I don't....
     
  16. Dave Baumann

    Dave Baumann Gamerscore Wh...
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    Assuming its PS3.0 compliant, at least 512 instructions.
     
  17. digitalwanderer

    digitalwanderer Dangerously Mirthful
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    Hmmm, I guess that "at least" qualifier would make that a minimum shader length rather than the requested maximum shader length.

    Does that mean that I was actually right and the max ain't publically known yet? (Sorry Dave, I mock in a very friendly manner as I'm in a silly mood this Friday...please do NOT be offended as I really ain't intending any, I'm going for a chuckle here. :)
     
  18. Reverend

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  19. MaxPower_NVN

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    Quit typing so small Digi!

    I'm tired of copying and pasting your tiny font into notepad already. :D :lol:
     
  20. digitalwanderer

    digitalwanderer Dangerously Mirthful
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    Sorry Max, it'll never happen again.


    BTW-I just cut-n-paste it into the URL bar at the top of me browser
    ;)
     
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