The Neverending Upscale Discussion Thread * Summary=#457

Discussion in 'Consoles' started by mrcorbo, Aug 3, 2007.

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  1. StefanS

    StefanS meandering Velosoph
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    Don't give up yet :razz: I think it looks remarkably similar to the pattern on your pic of NGS. But why on earth would Tecmo do scale from 1280 to 960 and then to 1920?
     
  2. nAo

    nAo Nutella Nutellae
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    You don't read b3d articles!!
     
  3. StefanS

    StefanS meandering Velosoph
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    :lol: I've read Vy's scaler article. But why scale from 1280 -> 960? But why not render at 960 like everyone else? Forgive me, but NGS doesn't strike me as over-the-top gfx intensive that the impact from the marginal resolution increase should prevent it.
     
  4. nAo

    nAo Nutella Nutellae
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    One reason might be simplicity, just render at 720p, no matter what's your target output resolution, then perform additional steps to scale the image to the proper resolution.
     
  5. Todd33

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    But it's worse than that isn't it, there is not a 1280x1080, so they are going from 1280->960->1920, what are they doing in the vertical with the 720 lines? There is only supposed to be a horizontal scaler. Unless we are talking about a software scaling from 720P to 960x1080 and then a hardware horizontal scaling to 1080P, but that sounds like extra work with no pay off.
     
    #165 Todd33, Aug 13, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 13, 2007
  6. AlBran

    AlBran Ferro-Fibrous
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    The options for devs were updated back in January:

    http://www.beyond3d.com/content/articles/16/2
     
  7. Todd33

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    Thanks, I had been referencing that article, but I was looking at the bar chart that leaves off the 1280x1080 resolution. So why would they render at 1280x1080 just so they can down sample the 1280 to 960 and the hardware scale up to 1920? Why not start at 960 or go directly from 1280 to 1920 as the article suggest they can do?
     
  8. NVNDA

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    The overscan issue

    It may have already been mentioned, but to make sure the television isn't scaling the signal itself, the television must be in a high-resolution mode which doesn't overscan the input signal.

    I have two 1080p screens, a Phillips 42" and a Samsung 40" both which have these "high resolution" options available only in 1080p mode and they do not not allow for removal of overscan in 720p mode. So if you are looking at games even on a 1080p TV make sure it is in this mode so the image isn't additionally scaled.

    I just played the demo of NG sigma and I noticed something interesting. If you hit the PS button you can tell that the system options are obviously scaled too.(never noticed it before in any other 1080p demo) I guess that will be my new test of seeing whether or not a game in running at full 1080p resolution.
     
    #168 NVNDA, Aug 14, 2007
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  9. AlBran

    AlBran Ferro-Fibrous
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    An in-game multiplayer screenshot from Halo 3 (click to view larger image):

    [​IMG]

    Barring the obvious image compression (damn you IGN!), there is clearly no AA. Looks like a 720p render to me.
     
  10. iceberg187

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    I was just about to put this here and add that someone needs to fess up.
     
  11. Mintmaster

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    If that's how the game's going to look in the end, I'm rather disappointed. A game of that budget and importance to MS really should have 4xAA, even if it means a slightly lower resolution and upscaling.
     
  12. Todd33

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    Fess up about what? The fact the MP beta was at 720P was discussed back on page two, the real discussion was about the SP graphics and the video from E3.
     
  13. Proelite

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    Which was also debunked since the E3 segment was a cutscene cropped and scaled to be 16:9.
     
  14. MonkeyLicker

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    it's still possible single- player will have anti-aliasing.

    With Forge it's gonna be hard to tweak performance, so they might have just decided to not use AA on multi-player.
     
  15. function

    function None functional
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    A big budget game can't be impressive now unless it uses 4x FSAA?

    The overall effectiveness of a game's visuals is far more important than whether it meets a specific feature checkbox, whether it's for level of AA, FP colour depth, resolution or anything else.
     
  16. nAo

    nAo Nutella Nutellae
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    I totally agree, let's wait for the final version of this game to judge his 'overal effectiveness'...
     
  17. TurnDragoZeroV2G

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    Who knows...
    Regarding AA, one previewer who saw the game recently in Australia is claiming to have noticed that AA was turned on (I made a post that I'm too lazy to link to in the other Halo thread in the games section). Whether that's actually the case or not we'll still have to wait for our own retail copies, but there it is... here's to hoping.
     
  18. Phil

    Phil wipEout bastard
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    I'm not sure what the PS3 games have, (I was under the impression most PS3 [launch] games don't have any AA at all, yet from what I played so far (Resistance, Motorstorm, GT:HD 2.0), I couldn't make out any aliasing on a 720p beamer...
     
  19. Farid

    Farid Artist formely known as Vysez
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    For thoses interested

    The TRC requires the game to be rendered in HD (1280x720 minimum) and to support techniques that alleviate aliasing (MSAA/SSAA, obviously, but also depth-of-field, motion blur, or any other technique that blur the edges).

    2xMSAA was asked from devs in the early days of the XeDK, but tiling proved to be more complex to implement in many code bases (including first/second party titles) so that requirement was dropped and changed into what it is today.

    With regard to the resolution, some games got away with lower resolution render targets because the developers/publishers politely asked MS if they could do so and MS couldn't answer by the negative to such eloquent queries. In other words, some developers/publishers have more leeway than others when it comes to TRCs. I think Fafalada recently talked about Konami and their dislike of the V-Sync technical requirement item for the PS2. These things happen...

    By the way, and that's off-topic, this thread is insufferable for the most part. The ad-hominem nonsense coupled with the usual console allegiance confrontational posturing tells me that we'll have to apply a few change come this back-to-school season. I blame Stefan and Carl, for this... :evil:
     
  20. MJP

    MJP
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    IIRC Resistance uses 2x Quincunx AA, and GT:HD uses 2xMSAA when rendering in 720p. I believe Motorstorm uses 2xMSAA as well, but not for all surfaces.
     
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