The Neverending Upscale Discussion Thread * Summary=#457

from my experience with gaming on PC, lower resolution on higher resolution displays make it look worse (aliasing especially). for example, 640x480 would look better on a native 800x600 display than it would on a 1024x768 native display. wouldn't a lower resolution on a higher resolution technically make it look worse as there is more scaling needed?

 

Oblivion (non GOTY edition) 1024x600 (2xAA)
Oblivion (GOTY edition) 1280x720 (2xAA)

So the Game Of The Year edition is full 720p?
How noticeable is the difference?
I thought it would be hard to go back and use tiling on the engine when they didn't use it the first time.

 

Now that I think about it (but it wasn't mentioned in this thread , or I missed it), I think I recall the original version getting a patch which upped it to 1280x720P, but then again that might of been the DLC, it would be great to get some clarification.

 

It is the other way around, a higher display resolution gives the scaling algorithms more room to work with.

 

anyone want want check the orange box for PS3?

http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/743/743925/img_5125858.html

I think someone has mention that the 360 version has no AA.

 

kyleb is right. You're probably making this comparison by remembering how much of a step down it is from the native resolution. For example, you're used to a 1024x768 desktop, so 640x480 for a game seems like a big step down, but the difference is less so for a 800x600 display.

 

Remember that this applies to alias free images only.

Without AA, you can get some very visible artifacts. A thin white strip on a black background, for example, can present itself as a dashed line sometimes, particularly if it's near a 0, 45, or 90 degree angle. Even if you had, say, a 24" 1080p display and viewed it 10 feet away, you'd see this aliasing very clearly, despite not even being able to fully discern 480p resolution at that distance.

What 4xAA will do is not only drastically decrease the length of the dashes in that line, but also replace black-white transitions with much closer shades of grey.

Nonetheless, that chart is a good reminder that resolution isn't everything, especially for most TV setups.

 

yes the 360 demo have no AA (and 30fps)

 

That's true. But that's aliasing due to lack of filtering higher frequency components of the image (erh, frequency in the spatial domain....) which presents themselves as low frequency artifacts.

Since you'd *always* get aliasing, regardless of resolution (think moire) with simple/no filtering, the effort is better spent with higher quality filtering of each pixel instead of pushing resolution way past the angular resolution of the human eye IMO.

Cheers

 

Does anyone know what percentage of users have a display which can and has been properly configured to provided 1:1 pixel mapping anyway? It seems that no one cares that nearly all TV's are upscaling, what is the difference when the console does it?

 

Does anyone else find it ridiculous that there are more native 768p TV's than native 720p TV's? We should just make 768p a standard resolution, since thats what most TV's actually put out.

Who designed this terrible system of AV standards seriously?

 

+1000
Nothing more to add.
In france it's almost impossible to find REAL 720P TV...

 

Curious, is all HDTV the same, or is there still a PAL standard, NTSC, and SECAM standards?

 

What's even crazier is the 1080p TVs take a 1080p signal and scale it up (or zoom if you will) for overscan so you're still not getting 1:1.

 

Yes and no.

They all have 720p60 modes, but PAL 720p is actually 720p50. Thankfully though it seems people are ignoring it and favouring 60.

 

Now that... makes no sense. Wouldn't it be cheaper to design TV's that output 1:1? The simplest design is usually the best!

 

Nothing in the AV world makes sense. As mere mortals we could readily design a set of standards and systems that'd work flawlessly and give the best solution, but the Powers That Be have deemed otherwise and repeatedly slap us about the face with marketing terms, dodgy signals and crazy scaling nonsense over-complications. But this doesn't help with the topic at hand of games upscaling...

 

im not denying that at some distance u wont be able to distinguish the difference

what i am doing is picking out the obvious flaw that at 10+feet on a 36inch tv ppl can 't tell the differnce between 480p + 1080p. which is of course is bollux. which casts doubt on the validity of the whole chart

 

The only "real" world experiment i have seen and read about is the AVS link. In my case i am maybe 9 feet away from a 110 inch screen. I am looking forward to a 1080p