The Neverending Upscale Discussion Thread * Summary=#457

...and Mario Galaxy is 640x456 no AA

 

yQuaz51 you also need to include a list of the 720p games thus ppl know which ones youve tested, or else ppl will assume all the non listed ones are HD (which is prolly no where near the truth )

 

i thought GT5P demo was 2xAA at "1080P" and 4xAA at 720p?
also, doesn't DiRT on PS3 use 2xMSAA? i thought Mmmkay said that in a different thread.

 

yes... why?

yes

 

is warhawk using 4XMSAA like they said it would?

 

can someone check the ps3 version of lost planet too?

http://www.gamersyde.com/news_5628_24121_1_en.html

 

n/m... i was tired and misread your post.

thought so... just wondering because Betanumerical's post didn't state this.

 

Possibly a silly question... I know there are a lot of variables here, but if I have a 40" 720p native LCD running a 720p native game, is there any real benefit in having a 40" 1080p native TV running a 720p native game?

I have a 1080p Bravia and I find my games looking stunning of course, but I also feel 1080p in this gen is simply a bullet point. Possibly going with a 720p model would have saved me some cash, but is the higher resolution also causing me to sacrifice image quality?

 

most 720p LCD's are actually 1366x768, so there needs to be some scaling done regardless. so for an LCD that is 1366x768, the TV is scaling the 720p image to 1366x768. for a 1080p display, its scaling 720p to 1920x1080. i think technically, since 720p is closer to 1366x768, it should look better than scaling 720p to 1080p, but i don't think there would be any discernible difference.

for Hi-Def movies, though, i think 1080p is worth it (albeit, maybe not so much on a 40" display). i know i know, there isn't much difference, if any with native 1080i vs 1080p, but there are few 1080i native displays out there.

 

It's going to be down to the quality of the scaler. In all likelihood, you won't be able tell the difference at a normal viewing distance.

 

Here's a nice graph to consider ->

 

That graph is only relevant to video not video games. Remember movies are using cameras that at a certain resolution captures reality which in turn has infinite (?) resolution.

 

I must be reading that graph wrong, but it looks like 480p is best viewable at 35+ feet?

Got to be reading it wrong...

 

I actually used that chart to pick my 1080p TV for when I end up picking up HD movies once the format war dies. I'm more interested in whether or not an image rendered at 720p and scaled to 1080p at a distance that chart has as "a noticable improvement" would look worse than a 720p image at 720p.

I know the scaler is a big factor, but I'd suggest there are benefits in scaling - say, having the extra pixel blending into a more neutral colour rather than having bigger squares. I guess this is simply a "there is no answer" thing.

 

I'm not sure how they got those figures for that graph, most use 1.5x the screen width for 720p which would put a 100" diagonal screen at 10'.

There was a 720p vs 1080p shoot out posted on AVS last year that had some interesting results.

 

Well, the simplest answer is that rendering at a higher resolution than your display's native resolution is fairly equivalent to super sampling. You'll get benefits of edge AA and texture AA. You probably won't resolve those benefits with the lower pixel density for objects that are "farther" away, however.

 

I have seen that graph before. I also typically point people to: this link

From the first link:

EDIT: I forgot, I tried to use this link to try and talk my friend into buying a 720p HDTV since he sits so far away from his screen and his TV had to fit in an armoire (he bought a 1080p 40" LCD TV).

 

Oddly enough, one of my friends parent bought a 40" XBR3, and they sit bloody close to the TV (due to the nature of the placement of the TV and their family room setup). The closest one can sit comfortably is about 6', and the farthest one would sit on the couch is probably about just double that.

I just got myself a 50" 768p TV because we have a fairly spacious family room, and the minimum distance anyone would practically sit (lest they sit on the floor) would be roughly 10' (3m). If I had gone with a 60" TV, I might have more seriously considered 1080p.

Any idea on the proliferation of non-1080p TV sets? Is 1080p grabbing a larger market due to the "Full HD" push?

I almost wonder if devs should target 768p next gen with plenty of AA/AF and a good quality scaler for 1080p sets, particularly considering the current situation with the sub-720p rendering in a number of games, and the much higher incidence of sub-1080p TVs out there.

 

thus at 10+ feet with a screen of 36inches the viewer wont be able to tell 480p vs 1440p

i reckon if u do an (blind, pun) experiment with this (like a eyetest at the optometrists) the results will be overwelming in what ppl pick as the easier text to read

 

A higher display resolution will make the image look better, assuming the scaling is done well you are sitting close enough to see the difference.

Take a medium quality print of some text and a high quality print of the same thing, tape them to the wall and back up. You'll find a distance where the two don't look any different despite the difference in print resolution. Same thing goes for a 480p display and a 1440p display at just over 10', assuming 20/20 vision.