The Neverending Upscale Discussion Thread * Summary=#457

You can test it yourself with pretty much any graphics app'. Just load in a (1080p if you choose) picture, shrink it 70% to 720p ratio, and scale it back to original size for a low-res to high-res scaling, and then take the original, half it's size horizontally and then scale back up to original. A quick test with this Crysis image (shrunk with pixel resize to render resolutions before upscaling with bilinear) shows the 1080p scale actually preserves a bit more image fidelity except in near vertical lines that have pronounced jaggies, but it's not anything to worry about. Both are compromises.

 

So does GeOW have any AA or AF?.... I'm still wondering about that one.

 

AF no... AA implementation appears to be selective, same as in Mass Effect. Some surfaces get 2xAA, most don't (from what I can see).

 

At least Mass Effect has AF (not high quality but still better than nothing), that is more important to me than AA.

Thanks for the scaling explanations btw.

 

AFAICS on my 26" TV that's one foot in front of me, there is no AF... Go into any corridor in the wards and see for yourself. I can definitely see the mip lines. The view camera hides them well, but they are there, even when you're in the mako.

 

you can see the lines, but there is definitely AF being used or textures would be a blurry mess. The lines seem like the result of AF "optimization" or a lower quality texturing mode like you can set in the driver on PC.

 

Was just about to recall Xenos' AF method as mentioned in the Xenos article. My bad.

The AA selection is a little interesting, I'll try to get a photo of it later.

 

By AA selection you mean only using AA on certain surfaces?, which I presume is something like this. In the image below, it appears to me that the walls and whatnot are getting 2xAA but the characters are receiving none.

 

It's a bit more selective than that.

Edit:

Characters can get AA in ME, but it's strange. It's probably just the limitations of 2xAA (sample positions).

 

What is it about tomb raider legends on the 360 that makes it look so blurred compared to the pc? Is it the 1024 x 600 resolution only? It looks like its more than that, on the pc at the same resolution the game still looks more defined, alot more.
Could it be the upscaling? I'm curious about this i wonder if theres a way to get the same defenition on xbox that i get on the pc at that same resolution.

The textures and all the rest seem to be the same in fact x360 version seems even better in some aspects like some objects cast shadows on the 360 and not on pc.

 

Quaz confirmed this earlier in the thread. Btw, if you do an advanced search of the Console Tech forum and list by post, you would have found it.

e.g. tomb raider + quaz51 + console technology + list by post

On the PC side, it seems more an issue with drivers and how they implemented the shadows in the game. IIRC, the latest patch fixed the shadowing.

 

Hm never tried to look for a patch thanks for the info.

Now about quaz51 i already knew he confirmed the game is 600p, but still seems too blurred for 600p, learned on my search that the game isn't 1:1 ratio and that might be what i notice don't really know if it is.

I would also like to make another question i dont really know if i can explain this well enough but when i look at the screen very closly on xbox 360 i see some small squares what are those?I can't confirm if all my games do that but at least on this i have noticed well gears of war, halo 3, Forza 2, Orange box don't think they would be pixels from resolution they are way bigger than that, are they result of bad Af?I wish i could take a foto or something to show what i'm talking about. Anyone have a clue ?

 

Gears looks to be using some level of AF to me. I would say Assassins Creed (360) seems to be as well. The blur line is much further back on these games than many others I've seen.

 

With AF, you're not supposed to see the mip line transitions at all...

The transitions were pretty clear on the highway on Feros. I would guess tri-linear filtering though..

 

Triliniar filtering is what gets rid of the mipmap transitions, AF keeps textures from getting blurry in distance. Gears uses some a AF, but isn't using full triliniar.

 

hm... yeah lol just thought about it and loaded up a game to try it out. So you're thinking bilinear + AF?
The transitions are too clear to me. How about a negative LOD bias?

 

It is like the the lower quality AF options in ATI and Nvidia's drivers, like the 'Performance' Anisotropic Filtering seen here:

http://beyond3d.com/content/reviews/37/16

Though I don't think it ever goes as high as x16. And yeah, there is some negative LOD bais too.

 

Ah, that makes more sense (been awhile since I heard of bilinear + AF mode ). Thanks for the link.

I can't wait to see what they'll do with the next game. I'd be more than happy if they "only just" achieved a more stable frame rate.

 

this (true?) GTA screenshots are 720p 2xAA and the MSAA pattern say that is X360 screenshots (i verified on many other games screenshots and i confirm that MSAA pattern on Xenos is the mirror of the RSX)

Spoiler

 

hi Quaz51, you mind checking SC4 and DMC 4 if they have AA

http://www.gamespot.com/ps3/action/s...lls;subtitle;1

http://www.gamespot.com/ps3/action/d...tag=images;all