The Neverending Upscale Discussion Thread * Summary=#457

Discussion in 'Consoles' started by mrcorbo, Aug 3, 2007.

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  1. Shifty Geezer

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    In this case its questionable if the eDRAM limit is the problem, or if it was a design choice by Bungie. This conversation needs to be continued in the HDR the Halo Way thread if you want to explore the issue. The choice of 2 separate buffers for doing HDR is...unconventional, and seems unnecessary. I'd like to see a paper or deeper explanation from Bungie why they went this way, when other titles are managing HDR at 720p and with AA just fine. The must have found some advantages that I'm clueless too.
     
  2. Hardknock

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    Uhhh answer is simple. Their dev-kit can obviously render the game at any resolution all the way up to 1080p (evidenced from the photomode shots that people have posted). The real question is why do you or anyone else care about something like that?
     
  3. Shifty Geezer

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    Because when you look at screenshots, there's always been an assumption that games with bullshot levels of AA are from the game, and you know what you're getting. From a technical POV, if 'real' screenshots aren't real in-game screenshots, it messes up discussion. How can we talk about the technical accomplishments and choices of Title X based on 720p screenshots if the game actually runs at 640p without anyone telling us?

    We've learnt to see the difference in unrealistic representation of games in PR material, but now we learn we have to be sceptical of things that before we thought we could trust as the real deal. If we see a 1080p screenshot for an upcoming game with no upscaling artefacts on IGN or GameSpot,
    we can no longer say 'this game is coming out and rendering at 1080p. How are they managing that given...?' but instead have to say 'this screenshot is 1080p, but the game might not actually render at that resolution when its released, so we can't really discuss the issue of how the devs got around the apparent fillrate limit until we know for sure they have.'
     
  4. Titanio

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    I would care, because from what I've played so far, I've come to this conclusion - given the style and other characteristics of the graphics, resolution, good IQ, good texture filtering, good AA etc. GREATLY affects the overall graphics quality of this game, perhaps disproportionately so. The absence of those in the game itself is...quite detrimental to the overall graphical quality, to say the least, IMO.
     
  5. sionyboy

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    I notice that in an earlier post in the thread Quaz51 stated that the Ninja Gaiden Sigma demo was 1280x720, was this the same in the full game as well? I was under the impression it was 1920x1080, but then I was also under the impression that Halo 3 was 720p. :p

    Perhaps somebody could do a round up of Quaz51's investigations.
     
  6. Strange

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    Ninja Gaiden Sigma, IIRC, is rendered at 960(width)* 1080 (height)
    and then applied a 1:2 horizontal scalar to display at 1920*1080.
     
  7. Bohdy

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    It's hard to find captures, but from what I've been able to figure Sigma it's native 720p in all cases.
     
  8. Quaz51

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    not for me
    in the demo is 1280x720 with software upscale for 1080p
     
  9. Quaz51

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    :D
    if it's impossible to discern the difference why not sent true screenshot 640p upsclaled in 720p?
     
  10. djskribbles

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    i didn't think the demo scaled at all? the demo ran at 720p for me, or did it run at 1080p with 720p unchecked? i thought just the final release was scaled?
     
  11. rekator

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    I have a question for Quarz51 (or other who got a 1080p TV), you play on a 1080p LCD, for the upscale to 1080p did you test the scaling by the TV again the scaling by the Xbox for Halo3?
    I interest to known is where are some differences, and knowless the better…

    P.S: can you give us the model of TV for reference. And if you have the time can you make a resume for the better scaling process (TV vs Xbox or PS3) for the games you test.
    I suspect some game to implement a specific scaling process for 1080p… (akai Lair…)

    Thanks for your works and for your Time ;)
     
  12. Shifty Geezer

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    Moved H3 HDR and AA talk to here
     
  13. Jeff Chen

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    I could tell that the game was upscaled from bare eyes, and it was not upscaled to only one dimension (such as 960*1080) cuz the both dimension of the graphic looked the same resolution.

    If you look at the 2D UIs carefully, you will find it a bit too softly jaggy, which means the whole screen was upscaled after it was rendered.
     
  14. Dave Glue

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    Unless the reason is not EDRAM, but pixel fill rate or pixel shader ops. Their HDR method looks to be rather intensive.
     
  15. Quaz51

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    i found a perfect screenshot for edge analyze of COD3 X360

    http://xbox360media.ign.com/xbox360/image/article/737/737715/call-of-duty-3-20061006014351158.jpg


    i found 7/8 recurence (a new upscale ratio after the 8/9 et 9/10 recurence on Halo upscale :) ) = 630p
    with 1120 horizontal resolution we have the same simple 7/8 upscale and a perfet 1:1 pixel on 16/9 ratio, thus i think that COD3 X360 is 1120x630

    and i noted that all the screenshot of the first Tony hawk X360 (project 8 not provind ground) is 1024x576 on gamespot , i think is the native resolution of the game (and the PS3 version too)
     
    #435 Quaz51, Sep 29, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 29, 2007
  16. kyleb

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    Gamespot downsamples most of their screenshots to 1024x576 so that shouldn't be taken as any indication of rendering resolution.
     
  17. Dave Glue

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    It really isn't - probably why it's in a special thread devoted to the subject on a sub-forum of a 3D graphics-card centric website.

    Really, I hear 10 times more bleating about the supposed "hysteria" and "big deal" than by those who actually consider it as such.

    You sure about that? It wasn't due to the pixel shaders just not able to keep up with their HDR implementation at 720p?
     
  18. scooby_dooby

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    Being linked to in dozens of forums around the world, and garnering mainstream press coverage from sites like Gamespot and surely more to come.

    Now I'm not arguing it's a huge deal, because I think Bungie made the right move in disclosing it after release, and it won't really affect their success at this point. But it's garnering far more attention than you are describing.
     
  19. Quaz51

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    but on IGN the screenshot of tony hawk are in the same resolution too (almost, it's 1040x584) with AA

    for example
    http://xbox360media.ign.com/xbox360...71/tony-hawks-project-8-20060913115839263.jpg

    and the same screenshot but in 720p
    http://ps3media.ign.com/ps3/image/article/732/732680/tony-hawks-project-8-20060929023835228.jpg
    i find 4/5 ratio upscale in this 720p screenshot (4/5 upscale = 1024x576)

    but the last PS3 IGN screenshot (the older are probably X360 version) are in native 720p with no AA
    i think Tony hawk project 8 is 1024x576 with AA on X360 and 1280x720 no AA on PS3
     
    #439 Quaz51, Sep 29, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 29, 2007
  20. RobertR1

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    It'll be interesting to see the attention other games dicussed in this thread, get. My guess, next to none.
     
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