The Neverending Upscale Discussion Thread * Summary=#457

Discussion in 'Consoles' started by mrcorbo, Aug 3, 2007.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. AlBran

    AlBran Ferro-Fibrous
    Moderator Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2004
    Messages:
    20,716
    Likes Received:
    5,813
    Location:
    ಠ_ಠ
    Joe Graf said they were rendering 960x720 in 4:3 mode, and also that they upscale from 720p (implying that's what they render at).

    (He confirms it more explicitly here)
     
    #201 AlBran, Aug 28, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 28, 2007
  2. Dave Glue

    Regular

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2002
    Messages:
    634
    Likes Received:
    25
    Yeah, Gears definitely looks 720p to me. No real surprise with TR:Legend there, as it certainly didn't look like 720p either.

    Anyone tested Bioshock on the 360?
     
  3. Quaz51

    Regular

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    916
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    France
    1280x720p no AA
     
    #203 Quaz51, Aug 28, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 28, 2007
  4. Dave Glue

    Regular

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2002
    Messages:
    634
    Likes Received:
    25
    Thanks. Even with no AA that's pretty impressive, as without vsync the game seems to average close to 50fps (oh how I wish more console games would do this!).
     
  5. Mmmkay

    Regular

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2005
    Messages:
    627
    Likes Received:
    31
    Someone just brought to my attention that Warhawk has upscaling options, but like many titles which do the same, it will only implement them when you un-tick 720p from the list of supported resolutions.

    I'm bumping this thread because (and, sorry, I'm too tired to present photographic evidence) I believe unlike NGS, this title does accurately scale from 720p to 1080p without any bizarre downscaling shenanigans.
     
  6. Quaz51

    Regular

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    916
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    France
    i tested the harry potter PS3 demo and i observed a strange trick
    the game is 1280x720 MSAA 2x for the 720p output but for the 1080p output they apparently mix the two 1280x720 MSAA samples buffers to one 2560x720 pixels framebuffer and rescale it to 1920x1080
     
    #206 Quaz51, Sep 15, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 15, 2007
  7. babcat

    Regular

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2006
    Messages:
    656
    Likes Received:
    45
    Did anyone ever come up with the final resolution of Halo3?
     
  8. "Nerve-Damage"

    Regular

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2005
    Messages:
    809
    Likes Received:
    14
    It most likely will be 1280x720p.

    Given that Gears and UT3 are natively 720p and looks graphically better (IMO), Halo 3 shouldn’t have a problem handling 720p.
     
  9. Blade47167

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2007
    Messages:
    158
    Likes Received:
    0
    Can I ask how you find this out?
     
  10. Quaz51

    Regular

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    916
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    France
    it is a little long to explain and I speak english very bad
    i can only explain in French, sorry
     
  11. Acert93

    Acert93 Artist formerly known as Acert93
    Legend

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2004
    Messages:
    7,782
    Likes Received:
    162
    Location:
    Seattle
    There are fluent French posters here who can translate. So give it a go.
     
  12. Mmmkay

    Regular

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2005
    Messages:
    627
    Likes Received:
    31
    Just a quickie... The Tony Hawk's Proving Ground PS3 demo renders lower than 720p (in both vertical and horizontal), likely 960x540 or around that marker.
     
  13. wowfactor

    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2007
    Messages:
    56
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gears was not rendered at 720p it was rendered at 960x720 which is 75% of full 720p resolution.
     
  14. Quaz51

    Regular

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    916
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    France

    en faite l'aliasing des edges donnent beaucoup d'informations notement sur la resolution native du rendu des jeux (merci l'aliasing pour une fois). Tout les steps de l'aliasing font forcement 1 pixel natif de haut sur les edge horisontaux (dans la limite ou l'edge n'est pas incliné de +/- 45°) et 1 pixel natif de large (+/- 45°) sur les edges verticaux. a partir de cette axiome il est facile de determiner la resolution native d'un jeux en determinant le ratio step/pixel-ecran.
    bien sur pour cela il faut une TV Full HD 1920x1080 a matrice pour bien distinguer les pixels (moi c'est un LCD) et un mapping 1:1, et plutot grande de preference :)
    ensuite a l'oeil (pour les ratios les plus simple) en se collant a l'ecran ou en utilisant un apareil photo numerique on arrive facilement a determiner les ratios (en faisant un comptage de pixel sur 10 ou 20 steps si il le faut pour les resolutions natives les plus etrange qui ont des ratios compliqués)
    au final on arrive tres bien a retrouver la resolution native des jeux (sauf si le jeux est excessivement bluré mais j'ai pas eu de cas de la sorte), aussi bien les resolutions inferieurs a celle de l'ecran que celles qui sont superieurs (pour les resolutions superieurs faut rester dans une limite raisonable inferieur a x2 sinon y a risque de confusion avec du MSAA ). j'ai dailleurs determiné la resolution native de pas mal de jeux PS3 et X360 de cette facon (que j'ai deja posté dans ce topic precedement)

    maintenant pour ce qui concerne plus particulierement le cas Harry Potter j'ai tout de suite constaté quelque chose de bisarre...
    sur les edges verticaux je trouvais un ratio 4/3 ce qui donne une resolution native horisontal de 2560 pixels (c'etait la premiere fois que je tombais sur un ratio superieur a 1) et sur les edges horisontaux je trouvais un classic ratio 2/3 qui donne 720 lignes donc je constatais sans ambiguité une resolution native de 2560x720 mais bien sure je comprenais pas ce choix. qu'elle serait l'interet d'utiliser un frame buffer comme ca qui necessite en plus un rescale software plutot qu'un simple buffer 1920x1080 et surtout j'avais constaté que quand je sortais le jeux en 720p j'avais donc bien du 1280x720p avec MSAA 2x et le framerate etait deja faible et instable donc je ne voyais pas comment ils auraient pu proposer une resolution 2 fois superieur sans plus de probleme sur le framerate.
    et puis surtout y avait un detail tres suprenant qui m'intriguait beaucoup c'etait ces pointillés qu'il y avait sur les edges horisontaux a l'endroit ou normalement on observe le MSAA. c'est la que j'ai pensé a cette idée d'utiliser les 2 buffers de sample MSAA du mode 720p comme un seul framebuffer 2560x720 qui serait ensuite rescalé en 1920x1080 et quand j'ai simulé cette idée j'ai retrouvé exactement ce que j'observais sur les screens de Harry Potter (notement ces pointillés tres distinct et significatif sur les edges horisontaux) et donc l'expliquation etait evidement celle ci.

    au final les edges du jeux en 1080p donne l'impression d'une resolution native de 2560x720 mais la surface des polygones (shaders/textures) ne propose rien de plus que du 1280x720, et on a en bonus ce semblant d'effet MSAA x2 en ordered grid vertical (donc sur les edges horisontaux) sous forme de pointillé (comme si c'etait de l'alpha coverage)
    difficile de dire si c'est vraiment preferable au simple mode 720p avec un veritable MSAA mais ca a le merite d'etre original
     
    #214 Quaz51, Sep 15, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 15, 2007
  15. warb

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2006
    Messages:
    1,057
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    UK
    #215 warb, Sep 15, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 15, 2007
  16. Quaz51

    Regular

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    916
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    France
    i tested, i confirm it's not 720p
    i find 5/9 ratio for horizontal and vertical, for me it's 1067x600
     
  17. Laa-Yosh

    Laa-Yosh I can has custom title?
    Legend Subscriber

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2002
    Messages:
    9,568
    Likes Received:
    1,452
    Location:
    Budapest, Hungary
    WTF??
     
  18. Quaz51

    Regular

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    916
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    France
    but "pixel junk racers" is true 1920x1080 :D
     
  19. 22psi

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2006
    Messages:
    1,365
    Likes Received:
    24
    junior members
     
  20. wowfactor

    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2007
    Messages:
    56
    Likes Received:
    0
    well I forgot to add 4:3. No big deal.
     
Loading...
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Beyond3D has been around for over a decade and prides itself on being the best place on the web for in-depth, technically-driven discussion and analysis of 3D graphics hardware. If you love pixels and transistors, you've come to the right place!

    Beyond3D is proudly published by GPU Tools Ltd.
Loading...