The LAST R600 Rumours & Speculation Thread

[Corwin_B]

Why would they feel that need? If, hypothetically, they had a part which wiped the floor with G80 they could charge what they liked for it. It's not like the global economy has gone into meltdown in the last week and everyone is suddenly tightening their belts.

Agreed. Unless the price for R600 is completely out of whack (in which case I don't see how an extra couple of weeks can really help), they could release it (even at a premium price and in limited quantities), even if it's to get some mindshare. That would slow down G80 sales at the high end and even at the medium level. So I don't buy the PR line of "we chose not to compete in order to compete better later".

Something is definitely very wrong, I think.

Which probably means that the performance/$ is worse then for the G80.

If they have the absolute best performance, they can release their part, and promise lower priced parts for later.

 

[epicstruggle]

It won't be a mistake if both are real good. AMD needs to put itself on the map again and this is a perfect opportunity.

Exactly. PR these days dont run cheap and if AMD could pull off simultaneous releases of a new CPU core AND a new GPU, it would certainly make a lot of noise both in cyberspace and the regular financial news. Heres hoping AMD can pull something so gutsy.

epic

 

[Geo]

Why would they feel that need? If, hypothetically, they had a part which wiped the floor with G80 they could charge what they liked for it. It's not like the global economy has gone into meltdown in the last week and everyone is suddenly tightening their belts. Is it the GTS 320 which is causing them angst?

Well, that would be the question of the day, wouldn't it? :smile: It's hard to say, for sure, to what degree new AMD sugar daddy changes the decision making of the traditional models we've all gotten used to. That's one variable. Secondly, you said G80, I didn't. The real benchmark is "the competition", and however you feel you will be positioned against them at the time you're launching and the foreseeable future. They might know more about that than us. And thirdly, there's a rather sizeable spectrum from "wipe the floor with the competition" and "having the competition wipe the floor with you". The community seems to always prefer doom or triumph formulations and thinking, but of course reality is usually going to be a lot more nuanced and complex than that.

 

[INKster]

Ugh, wouldn't it suck if AMD wants to do a simultaneous release of Barcelona and R6xx.

Jawed

Let's not forget that AMD "Barcelona" is a server CPU...

I doubt the desktop variants would be ready by Q2, unless AMD did a paper-launch of selected CPU's inside R600 review kits, which doesn't make sense anyway.

 

[Bjorn]

If they have the absolute best performance, they can release their part, and promise lower priced parts for later.

They can't really release it at a f.e 30% premium if it's only 15% faster either. They could perhaps accept very low margins just to get some mindshare back though.

 

[Jawed]

Exactly. PR these days dont run cheap and if AMD could pull off simultaneous releases of a new CPU core AND a new GPU, it would certainly make a lot of noise both in cyberspace and the regular financial news. Heres hoping AMD can pull something so gutsy.

I'm sure it would make shareholders feel all warm and fuzzy if it happened, but Barcelona isn't due until July.

OK, so a paper-launched Barcelona in April with R600 hard-launched wouldn't be horrible. But what are the chances?

Jawed

 

[nelg]

If you mean lower in price, then yes, I agree that's what they are saying. I don't see any way to read that which doesn't mean they feel a need to be able to hit lower price points at launch than they originally intended when they scheduled an end of March launch.

No, I was suggesting lowering performance expectations. Assuming that the R600 is larger than the G80 and requires a more expensive cooling solution, these factors will not change by delaying its introduction. My speculation is that they need time to showcase (demos etc.) what it brings to the table vs. the G80 because performance alone won't compelling.

 

[Jawed]

Let's not forget that AMD "Barcelona" is a server CPU...

I doubt the desktop variants would be ready by Q2, unless AMD did a paper-launch of selected CPU's inside R600 review kits, which doesn't make sense anyway.

Desktop quad-core isn't due for another year after. So the only way enthusiasts are going to get their hands on quad-core AMD is by buying some variant of Barcelona, as far as I can tell.

Anyway, I don't want this to happen. I just want to know the techie stuff.

Jawed

 

[Jawed]

Maybe 3DMk07 is delayed, so AMD has decided to delay the release until 3DMk07 is ready?

Jawed

 

[nutball]

The real benchmark is "the competition", and however you feel you will be positioned against them at the time you're launching and the foreseeable future. They might know more about that than us.

This is true.

And thirdly, there's a rather sizeable spectrum from "wipe the floor with the competition" and "having the competition wipe the floor with you". The community seems to always prefer doom or triumph formulations and thinking, but of course reality is usually going to be a lot more nuanced and complex than that.

Well my "wipe the floor" was purely in respect of their ability to charge what they like for the top-end part. It was (intentionally) the extreme end of the spectrum They still may yet do this of course, but the wording says to me that they don't feel that have a product which will show a clear and compelling advantage over NVIDIAs current and imminent products at the very high-end, so they're shifting their focus elsewhere.

Even so, the timing and manner of the shift is rather strange. Given the limited life-time of GPUs it would certainly smack less of disaster management to launch it anyway and quietly change your plans for the update a few months down the line. As it is it now looks rather like they've totally lost the plot (there I go with the doom scenarios again )

 

[Geo]

This is true.

Well my "wipe the floor" was purely in respect of their ability to charge what they like for the top-end part. It was (intentionally) the extreme end of the spectrum They still may yet do this of course, but the wording says to me that they don't feel that have a product which will show a clear and compelling advantage over NVIDIAs current and imminent products at the very high-end, so they're shifting their focus elsewhere.

This would appear to me to be the most likely scenario as well. Tho, until we have cards to poke at, of course, it's still speculation.

 

[Thorburn]

Maybe 3DMk07 is delayed, so AMD has decided to delay the release until 3DMk07 is ready?

Jawed

Maybe R600 is delayed so Futuremark are delaying the 3D Mark 07 release

 

[Geo]

Maybe R600 is delayed so Futuremark are delaying the 3D Mark 07 release

Neither of which has much obvious connection to aligning strategies to market opportunities, or addressing a broader portion of the market.

 

[Jawed]

Maybe R600 is delayed so Futuremark are delaying the 3D Mark 07 release

Hey, I think it's pretty strange that 3DMk07 hasn't been released now that Vista and D3D10 are here.

Jawed

 

[Jawed]

Neither of which has much obvious connection to aligning strategies to market opportunities, or addressing a broader portion of the market.

The connection might not be direct, but the way the IHVs use 3DMk as a significant feature point when aligning products for performance comparisons is hard to ignore.

Jawed

 

[Miksu]

Hey, I think it's pretty strange that 3DMk07 hasn't been released now that Vista and D3D10 are here.

Aye, it's been delayed but I don't think they ever promised a Q1 release (or a simultaneous release with Vista)?

 

[zgemboandislic]

This is bad. Very BAD.

On the other hand, I'm don't care much about high resolutions, my monitor is still a 17"
So as long as there are no games out there that will MAKE me buy a new card, I can wait, probably even for R650 or NV's counterpart...

 

[Bjorn]

Well my "wipe the floor" was purely in respect of their ability to charge what they like for the top-end part. It was (intentionally) the extreme end of the spectrum They still may yet do this of course, but the wording says to me that they don't feel that have a product which will show a clear and compelling advantage over NVIDIAs current and imminent products at the very high-end, so they're shifting their focus elsewhere.

The question to ask is then, what are they planning to do in a couple of months that will address the current issues, assuming that it has to do with the price. 384 bit mem bus ?

 

[Bob]

Duke^H^H^H^H R600 Forever

 

[trinibwoy]

This would appear to me to be the most likely scenario as well. Tho, until we have cards to poke at, of course, it's still speculation.

I'm pretty baffled by the suggestions that a further delay bodes well for the future...but I'll keep reading. Maybe I'll understand eventually