Its so funny that I'm the mirror oposite. I don't mind main characters dying or suffering or whatever. As long as the the other characters can be as interesting. In fact, I never cared much for Joel. Guy was a dick, and he deserved what he got irrespective of part I's ending. Nothing unfair there. Ellie was the light of the first game, joel was there to bring it out by contrast only.
The second game has political correctness splattered all over the story, for sure. Doesn't take from the fact you get some kick arse action in it.
It reflects people's non acceptance of difference. Because they werent expecting it and didnt want to see it, once it is front of them it annoys them. Since it annoys them they need to express it.What political correctness? If you're going to say there were non-straight people in the game, I'm going to be really disappointed. Because The Last of Us Part II was entirely a story about survival and revenge. I don't know what the hell game other people who felt it was full of political correctness were playing.
So like I never played part 2, since the PS4 Pro tried to take off with afterburners on when I tried playing it.
But what is woke about it and why is that so bad?
I liked all of the second game, but I admit that Joel was too good of a character to kill off like that.
IMO, Joel got exactly what he deserved. He needed to be killed off. He started off as this great guy that I could empathize with for most of the game, and then at the end he just turned into this horrible psychotic monster.
I agree Joel got what he deserved from the retcon narrative, but he didn't need to die. His days could have ended in any number of ways. If you think he turned into a "horrible psychotic monster" then that can be because you played him in the first game.
My take, and the way I played Joel where you have discretion on when to kill or not, was only to kill where it was necessary to survive. The ending is the ending either way, but when I shot the doctors I shot them in the leg. In Part II, they re-did that sequence with Joel shooting the doctors in the head regardless of what you actually did in the first game.
But for me the bigger issue, which you discover only if you thoroughly search the hospital, was the procedure had a staggeringly low chance of successfully producing a viable vaccine. From my perspective, the terrorists were so desperate they were willing to kill a child. And it was never clear whether they told Ellie this.
They were never straight with Joel or Tess, so I feel it unlikely they were straight with Ellie.
Sure, I get what you're trying to say with the last bit there, however, that doesn't impact what Joel chose to do, or more importantly for me, what he chose to do afterwards. Rather than discuss it with Ellie, he instead chose to lie to her to make himself feel better.
I have far more respect for the research camp who did some pretty bad things in an attempt to save humanity versus Joel who did some godawful things at the end for purely selfish reasons.
Neil Druckmann said:And his [Joel] arc is all about this irrational love you feel for your kid - that you would do anything to take away their pain, and definitely anything in the world to save them from harm. And it's about how far this guy, who's become a father to Ellie, how far he's willing to go to save her. Clearly, he's willing to give up his life - that comes pretty easily for him because he doesn't care much about it. But then we see he's willing to give up his friends' and family's lives, or put them at risk. All these walls and defenses that he's put around himself to kind of protect his emotional state, he's willing to throw all those down and put those at risk, because it's worth it. It's worth putting that at risk to have that love of your kid, even though that you might have to deal with something horrible happening to them. And he's willing to put his soul on the line, right? Damning the rest of mankind in exchange for this girl's life.
One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. The Fireflies killed people who disagreed with them, the game is littered with story moments establishing this, including recorders explaining that the Fireflies as an organisation were divided on what to do. The Fireflies attacked Joel and Ellie before they even knew who they were, they lied to Joel and Tess. Marlene misled them at every turn. They were not nice people. They were desperate people. Desperate people are dangerous.
Were they any worse than anybody else trying to survive? No, but they sure as hell weren't any better either.
They weren't worse, but they were certainly better. Unlike the rest, they were actively working to find a cure to attempt to save humanity and if it worked, give other communities the chance to stabilize their situation and give them a better chance to deal with marauders and actual real terrorists without having to worry about the infected or becoming infected. IMO, that's a massive world of difference for the better compared to the dregs of humanity whose only goal is to prey on others or survival communties which prey on others and justify it as allowing them to survive or even communities which attempt to avoid preying on others but still fall into conflict with roaming gangs or other survival communities.
I would also rather Naughty Dog work on something new. But if The Last of Us remake is doing done by another team, who are just taking Part II mechanics and tech and making the first game better with no other changes then I would be tempted to buy it. Because the first game, which I still feel is better paced and just the right length for me, is hard to return to once you've enjoyed the mechanics of the second.For some reason, I'm not really for the remake that has been rumoured. I think the original is just a game that cannot be surpassed. They honestly could have just done a similar game in the same universe, with a mother and child, or something like that.
I personally wished the first title had been this one sole story and they bever made a sequel.
Once the sequel was made, it renforced that position. Part II has great gameplay, but the story lost most of the soul and ellegance of the first. I don't expect a III to be any better.
Keep the great gameplay mechanics, and start from a blank slate with fully new characters and story. Drop the zombies, its a formulaic clutch that ND already proved not to need.
If they must stay in the dark and gritty land, do something about a civil war somewhere, or drug cartels. You can make crack-heads and opioid-adicts be your zombie-like enemy archetipe hahaha. Neal seems to like playing grownup, so do it for real then.
If you mean in terms of the story, pace, what happens and so on I completely agree. Nothing in The Last of Us feels drawn out but a bunch of places outstayed there welcome in Part II. Not in egregious JRPG grinding for ten hours, but they could have cut five hours and for me, the game would have been a lot better.Wow. I've long felt that TLOU2 has better gameplay but TLOU1 is the better experience.
Like you say, interesting discussion that continues nine years after the game launched.
Exactly. The first game still spawns way more discussion than the sequel. That's because its story was focused, elegant, and poignant. The Sequel is way less powerfull because it was incapable of hitting that sweet spot again, and I always though the first should be left alone as a single masterpiece because I could already predict the sequel would not be able to hold a candle to it.
This is an interesting perspective. The way I view it is the first game was about Joel and Ellie, and you played mostly as Joel. The second game was about Ellie and Abby, with play time tipping slightly towards Ellie. It wouldn't surprise me if the third game switches to Abby and the whole last act of Part II is the build-up.I never cared for Joel, I never cared that I had to use Ellie, actually preferred it because she is the most important character in the franchise. Never cared that you used Abby. Never really minded that we used Abby. Damn sure don't give a damn about the dogs. There were points in the game where there were literally perfect spots that should have been the end. Like when Ellie leaves to go after Abby one last time.
That wasn't needed. She should have had closure with Dina and her baby. Ellie's campaign is top notch, Abby's is a few tiers below. In all honesty, the game's timeline should have been told in a linear fashion and not as flashbacks. By the time we got to Abby, most of us already had a decision made on her because we just got done investing 10+ hours on Ellie, building her up to the point that she can move like Sam Fisher and we know that Joel was killed by Abby.