The GT5 expectation thread (including preview titles)*

[thambos]

I disagree. Let them take their time, PD makes brilliant games, once they are out they are near perfection. Id rather wait a year for a near perfect game rather than something rushed out to compete with Forza.

Imo PD could compete with Forza 3 easily by just releasing an updated version of GT5P with much more cars, tracks and proper challenges.

I disagree. I've been a fan of GT since the original; but as far as driving goes GT5 has nothing on forza 2, much less 3.

It's prettier yes, but that same prettiness also gives it a very clinical/plastic world look & i suspect limits the number of effects available. I believe their major problem is in trying to keep the same resolution while adding to the game. Since GT is probably the PS brand's largest IP & the ambassador to the "cell's power" marchitecture. I hope they can deliver on the improved damage & physics that they've promised; but I can understand why it's taking so long or if it doesn't live up to their goals (be it for visual priority or mandate).

 

[ShaidarHaran]

I question the Polyphony development process when I read these kinds of statements.
Prologue should not be Polyphony's main focus, their focus should be on getting GT5 out the door in time to compete with Turn 10's next game. Somebody at Sony needs to sit down with these guys and have them reevaluate their development model, because from where I sit, it is fucking terrible.

I question the opinion of anyone that frets over the perceived lateness of a GT title. Clearly you haven't followed this franchise.

 

[the ignoramus]

That's hardly fair. I've been playing Polyphony's games since the PS1 days.
I'm going to raise my eyebrows when Kaz Yamauchi admits that in 2008, year 2 of the PS3, his team hasnt even begun development on GT5 proper. That's pretty scary, this suggests that we wont see the game until late 2010, maybe 2011. I'm just worried that we wont even see two full, feature complete GT games from Polyphony this generation.

 

[ShaidarHaran]

That's hardly fair. I've been playing Polyphony's games since the PS1 days.

Every GT game has been "late", hence my comments.

I'm going to raise my eyebrows when Kaz Yamauchi admits that in 2008, year 2 of the PS3, his team hasnt even begun development on GT5 proper. That's pretty scary, this suggests that we wont see the game until late 2010, maybe 2011. I'm just worried that we wont even see two full, feature complete GT games from Polyphony this generation.

Gotta love the intarwebs. Everything gets taken out of context and blown out of proportion. The quote you're referring to is no doubt a mis-translation. Clearly GT5P is the basis for GT5. That's been said all along.

 

[manux]

That's hardly fair. I've been playing Polyphony's games since the PS1 days.
I'm going to raise my eyebrows when Kaz Yamauchi admits that in 2008, year 2 of the PS3, his team hasnt even begun development on GT5 proper. That's pretty scary, this suggests that we wont see the game until late 2010, maybe 2011. I'm just worried that we wont even see two full, feature complete GT games from Polyphony this generation.

As earlier said in this thread GT5prologue is gt5 in progress. Prologue will be engine wise identical to the end product. It just that prologue will have less content(cars, tracks, challenges). So polyphony IS concentrating on gt5 but also at the same time providing incremental updates to community to play, test and give feedback from in the form of prologue. I rather started playing prologue in december 2007 than wait until summer 2009, but hey, that's just me.

I find this way of developing car game better as one gets to play the end result earlier. Also community feedback can be incorporated into the future patches and final game more easily. i.e. the promised better collision physics in next update. Also this helps polyphony digital to test network code and deliver hopefully a really nice online experience in the final product as opposite to only testing network code with limited beta audience or worse only internal testers. Yes the current online is primitive but it's going to get better. After all one needs to learn to walk before running, this is the first gran turismo that trys to provide serious online gaming experience.

Game development wise I assume it's not that big a job to develop a game that can be incrementally developed(i.e. damage, weather effects, new challenges, races, tracks, cars, etc.) if future upgrades are taken into account already when designing the game before writing the first line of code. So I don't believe this incremental development actually slows the final gt5 delivery that much.

 

[the ignoramus]

As earlier said in this thread GT5prologue is gt5 in progress. Prologue will be engine wise identical to the end product. It just that prologue will have less content(cars, tracks, challenges). So polyphony IS concentrating on gt5 but also at the same time providing incremental updates to community to play, test and give feedback from in the form of prologue. I rather started playing prologue in december 2007 than wait until summer 2009, but hey, that's just me.

I find this way of developing car game better as one gets to play the end result earlier. Also community feedback can be incorporated into the future patches and final game more easily. i.e. the promised better collision physics in next update. Also this helps polyphony digital to test network code and deliver hopefully a really nice online experience in the final product as opposite to only testing network code with limited beta audience or worse only internal testers. Yes the current online is primitive but it's going to get better. After all one needs to learn to walk before running, this is the first gran turismo that trys to provide serious online gaming experience.

Game development wise I assume it's not that big a job to develop a game that can be incrementally developed(i.e. damage, weather effects, new challenges, races, tracks, cars, etc.) if future upgrades are taken into account already when designing the game before writing the first line of code. So I don't believe this incremental development actually slows the final gt5 delivery that much.

I'll be honest, I'm a bit annoyed at Sony and Yamauchi selling this Gran Turismo TV stuff (which is a great feature--the cars and tracks looks astonishing in high def, are the current vids in Prologue native 1080?) when they have yet to implement such an essential feature as damage. And to be frank, I think its high time we got more tracks, I've just about had my fill of Prologue's current tracks.

Just give us the damage and the tracks (I cant wait to see what Polyphony do with tracks in metropolitan areas--London is the most goddamn beautiful track of any racer), maybe a few more cars, I'm sure alot of us would be happy to wait until 2011 for a fully integrated GTTV experience;it seems like its one of Polyphony's primary focuses. That bugs me.

 

[Acert93]

I question the opinion of anyone that frets over the perceived lateness of a GT title. Clearly you haven't followed this franchise.

If it comes in 2010, 4 years after the PS3 release, I don't care how you question someone the reality is that that ia a looong time between releases. 4 years isn't perceived lateness, it is late.

Of couse by 2010 the PS3 should have a much larger install base as well as be at its peak (before the wane to new consoles) and be in a position to capitolize on the investment. This is why I think SE was aiming down the road with their FF release: instead of moving consoles aim to recoup development through significant sales on established platform(s), this justifying the expense of a truly AAA game/budget.

PD's approach won't make everyone happy, especially when the prime competition will be in its second release this generation. It is an interesting model: Is it better to get 2 released products out or to use user feedback as a guide to a single product release further down the road. Hard to compare, though, when PD are just plain awesome at what they do and few devs rival their attention to detail.

 

[patsu]

I am ok with GT TV in general. I don't think it affects the gameplay development that much because the skillsets are different. In my view, it's an experiment for additional revenue.

However I am annoyed because they don't do a good job IMHO. There was (is ?) no background download, no stream viewing. Most importantly, it's rather clumsy to insert a GT5 disc, and download the episode.

I think they still have some ways to go to streamline the experience and effectiveness of the new model.

 

[Jedi2016]

If it comes in 2010, 4 years after the PS3 release, I don't care how you question someone the reality is that that ia a looong time between releases. 4 years isn't perceived lateness, it is late.

His point was that "late" is the norm for Polyphony. I don't think a GT game has ever launched anywhere near it's original planned release date. KY himself even joked about it at one point during the interview.

I don't see why the fuss about "GT5 Proper", though... Despite what KY says, they are working on it, all the time.. everything they make for Prologue is for the full game as well. The engine is largely complete, with only a few tweaks left to do (like damage, etc). Most of their efforts right now are in assets.. modeling cars and tracks. Even if the code were complete right now, it would still take at least another year or so to make all the stuff that's going into the game.

Personally, I kind of like the idea that Prologue may eventually "morph" into full GT5 via DLC. How great would it be to simply pay another $20 for a huge download that gives you all the content that the $60 Blu-ray disc has? Maybe that $40 I spent on Prologue wasn't wasted after all.

 

[eastmen]

His point was that "late" is the norm for Polyphony. I don't think a GT game has ever launched anywhere near it's original planned release date. KY himself even joked about it at one point during the interview.

I don't see why the fuss about "GT5 Proper", though... Despite what KY says, they are working on it, all the time.. everything they make for Prologue is for the full game as well. The engine is largely complete, with only a few tweaks left to do (like damage, etc). Most of their efforts right now are in assets.. modeling cars and tracks. Even if the code were complete right now, it would still take at least another year or so to make all the stuff that's going into the game.

Personally, I kind of like the idea that Prologue may eventually "morph" into full GT5 via DLC. How great would it be to simply pay another $20 for a huge download that gives you all the content that the $60 Blu-ray disc has? Maybe that $40 I spent on Prologue wasn't wasted after all.

wouldn't that be $60 bucks for the ame game excpet you had to pay $40 of it in advance for a crappy online mode ?

 

[Acert93]

I am aware that PD takes their time; yet GT4 was released in Winter of 2005. A 2010 release would be nearing 5 years between releases (nearly 6 if a fall release). To contrast GT came out in May 2008 (NA) and GT2 in Dec 1999 (NA) and then GT3 Aspec (Aug, 2001) and GT4 (Feb, 2005). 3.5 years is their previously longest release gap--so even by PD standards GT5 with a 2010 release would be later than previous releases would indicate was "fashionably" late by their previously pokey pace.

Even if a developer is slow, 5 or 6 years is plodding pace by any standard. Late may be PD's norm, but 2010 would be later than late, if there were such a thing.

 

[Arwin]

I am ok with GT TV in general. I don't think it affects the gameplay development that much because the skillsets are different. In my view, it's an experiment for additional revenue.

However I am annoyed because they don't do a good job IMHO. There was (is ?) no background download, no stream viewing. Most importantly, it's rather clumsy to insert a GT5 disc, and download the episode.

I think they still have some ways to go to streamline the experience and effectiveness of the new model.

If you go into the game and read the news, you will see that the 1st of August we'll get a new update that among others adds chapter support, a download queue (8 downloads max), etc. I think that will take away most qualms with the service right now.

Eventually what would be perfect is if they integrate the experience with the PSN video store just as you can already buy items for games from within the game in other games. There is at least one other game that uses a similar system, which is Singstar, which also has a great working background download (and upload) queue, integration with the store for purchasing new songs, etc.

But for that to happen of course we first need to have a video download service in other regions. In the meantime, I think the August update should help a lot. There are other things in that update too, like having a wider range of tire options in certain online modes, further tweaks to the points system and so on.

As for the actual in-game driving, I have to say I strongly disagree with you there Thambos. Forza 2's driving model is quite good and realistic, but it's broken. At certain angles, almost all types of cars bar FF cars will spin out a lot more than they should. I can't find any real flaws in the latest GT5rologue builds however, and that game has 16 cars and a fantastic in-car view. Of course having the wheel and the game myself, I am the last to say that Forza 2 doesn't have benefits of its own, but although the driving is pretty good, I don't think you can say at this point that GT5 Prologue's isn't better (not to mention has a lot better wheel options).

For myself, I much more hope that they will be focussing on improving the online play further. The first thing I would like to see is being able to set up your own races and being able to create your own rooms with your own cars and rule-sets. That to me is way more interesting than damage, to be honest. Preferably with tire-wear, fuel consumption and pit-stops, along with the option to select the strictest of rule-sets with black flags and time-penalties, and I'll want nothing more from PD except maybe some more tracks.

I'm almost disappointed that they are going to spend time on implementing damage, and I hope it is not on the top of the priority list.

GT5 Prologue is what I had been hoping for GT5 from day one. The wait from GT3 to GT4 was terrible, and in this day and age, releasing GT5 in bits and pieces is perfect I think - there is so much game in a GT release that the game will last you years. With that in mind, you might as well start releasing smaller bits of the game sooner so we don't have to wait so long, and they don't have to spend as much time getting it absolutely perfect the first time round - we can give feedback and have a quicker turnaround on any improvements.

 

[Nesh]

I'll be honest, I'm a bit annoyed at Sony and Yamauchi selling this Gran Turismo TV stuff (which is a great feature--the cars and tracks looks astonishing in high def, are the current vids in Prologue native 1080?) when they have yet to implement such an essential feature as damage. And to be frank, I think its high time we got more tracks, I've just about had my fill of Prologue's current tracks.

Just give us the damage and the tracks (I cant wait to see what Polyphony do with tracks in metropolitan areas--London is the most goddamn beautiful track of any racer), maybe a few more cars, I'm sure alot of us would be happy to wait until 2011 for a fully integrated GTTV experience;it seems like its one of Polyphony's primary focuses. That bugs me.

Why are you annoyed with GT TV?

It is something extra that doesnt necessarilly affect the inclusion or not of damage in the game.

I am aware that PD takes their time; yet GT4 was released in Winter of 2005. A 2010 release would be nearing 5 years between releases (nearly 6 if a fall release). To contrast GT came out in May 2008 (NA) and GT2 in Dec 1999 (NA) and then GT3 Aspec (Aug, 2001) and GT4 (Feb, 2005). 3.5 years is their previously longest release gap--so even by PD standards GT5 with a 2010 release would be later than previous releases would indicate was "fashionably" late by their previously pokey pace.

Even if a developer is slow, 5 or 6 years is plodding pace by any standard. Late may be PD's norm, but 2010 would be later than late, if there were such a thing.

There are some details that have to be mentioned though before making conclusions based on release dates alone.

After GT1, GT2 had pretty much all the assets ready from GT1. GT2 mostly added more cars and tracks on top.

GT3 wasnt supposed to be a fully fledged sequel. It started as GT2000 then it had a visual overhaul. Cars and tracks if I remember correctly were much less than GT2's if we exclude the mirror tracks and the dublicated night time tracks with wet roads.

One of the reasons for this was that unlike GT on the PS1, cars didnt need a few days to design but weeks on the PS2 (as stated by PD at the time).

GT4 was the real sequel and took 4 years after GT3 to be released with continuous delays. Which is natural if we consider the attention to detail and the crazy amounts of cars and tracks.

With a GT5 on the PS3, where PD stated they will inmclude 900+ cars and more than a hundred tracks, now including interior car design for each model on top of the more faithfull visual detail (on cars), while trying to maintain a level of realism I would be extremely suprised if the game came early in 2009.

 

[-tkf-]

GT5 has nothing on forza 2, much less 3.

I suggest you do the following, go back and read up on the many forza vs gt posts/threads etc. If you can add anything to those discussions then make a post. If not i strongly suggest you step away from the keyboard the next time you you are close to making such a blatant "junior" post.

 

[-tkf-]

wouldn't that be $60 bucks for the ame game excpet you had to pay $40 of it in advance for a crappy online mode ?

Do you have GT5P? Then you should know that the $40 includes a offline play as well. And many consider it a cheap game with the hours they have put into it.

Also you shouldn´t forget that even if the online part is rough it has already been patched and will continue to be so making it better and better.

 

[patsu]

wouldn't that be $60 bucks for the ame game excpet you had to pay $40 of it in advance for a crappy online mode ?

That means they didn't pay $40 for the online mode. They spent $40 for the "photo-realistic" cars, dual physics systems, and SP gameplay.

If you go into the game and read the news, you will see that the 1st of August we'll get a new update that among others adds chapter support, a download queue (8 downloads max), etc. I think that will take away most qualms with the service right now.

Eventually what would be perfect is if they integrate the experience with the PSN video store just as you can already buy items for games from within the game in other games. There is at least one other game that uses a similar system, which is Singstar, which also has a great working background download (and upload) queue, integration with the store for purchasing new songs, etc.

Good to know that they have improved GTTV, but as you mentioned. The model is still somewhat inefficient and ineffective because of the need to insert a BR disc to watch the movie. Direct and seamless integration into XMB, PS Store or even Home will help to improve awareness and conversion.

But for that to happen of course we first need to have a video download service in other regions. In the meantime, I think the August update should help a lot. There are other things in that update too, like having a wider range of tire options in certain online modes, further tweaks to the points system and so on.

True enough, but they could also allow us to download the PSN version for free (if we bought the BR version). Or create a mini-GTTV viewer on HDD if they are serious about the effort.

 

[Gradthrawn]

The model is still somewhat inefficient and ineffective because of the need to insert a BR disc to watch the movie.

Why wouldn't the BD be inserted if you have the BD version?

 

[patsu]

I may be playing other games (like MGS4). Increasingly there will be other channels to get the same videos anyway. If GTTV is not efficient and convenient, it will not make much difference in the grand scheme of things, and may kill the business model prematurely, rather than validate it.

If the result proves ineffective, then GTTV is indeed a waste of time and resources; they should spend the money on something else -- unless they have a strong follow up after these weak showings.

 

[eastmen]

That means they didn't pay $40 for the online mode. They spent $40 for the "photo-realistic" cars, dual physics systems, and SP gameplay.

they spent $40 bucks to fund a game for x amount of years while only having the online mode.

Then when the rest of the game came out they got other things . Btw don't use photo realstic cars when they are clearly not because it will under mind the first game to actually reach that level.

 

[patsu]

they spent $40 bucks to fund a game for x amount of years while only having the online mode.

Huh ? Only having the online mode ? What happened to the single player mode and the tuning ? They surely count towards the price tag ? In any case, the players already know that GT5P is a work in progress. I for one only bought it for SP. Never intended to go online with my virtual driving skill.

Then when the rest of the game came out they got other things . Btw don't use photo realstic cars when they are clearly not because it will under mind the first game to actually reach that level.

That's why "photo-realistic" is in quote. Everyone who tracks GT5P should have seen the cars by now (complete with aliasing, 1080p and 60fps). They certainly had a lot of fun comparing screen shots with photos.