The cloud is just over the horizon [2018-2019]

Discussion in 'Console Technology' started by Lalaland, Jul 16, 2018.

  1. Lalaland

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    Four years after it was announced, Crackdown 3 is in a tough spot
    (Eurogamer link)

    We've heard Jones' ambitions for the game - tantalisingly outlined at big media shows such as Gamescom - were simply too big to be made a reality in a fully functional, multiplayer environment on Xbox One."

    So it's a longer article about the overall product but it did have some details that I was unaware of, MS had already told everyone that cloud would be MP only but they appear to be aiming for a greater concurrency than I was expecting (I thought 4ish players)

    Crackdown 3 MP aka Wrecking Zone
    - 10 player
    - 20-30 minute matches
    - Destroy/Defend enemy towers
    - Built with Cloudgine tech that is now owned by Epic (article doesn't say if the tech is being folded into UE4)

    Now this is the kind of tech I'd expect Amazon to be working to integrate with Foundry given that the play for cloud providers is all about selling back end cycles but has anyone seen any other engines attempt this integration? Hell have Epic made any noises about when/if they are integrating Cloudgine's stuff into UE?
     
  2. iroboto

    iroboto Daft Funk
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    Yup.
    At this point in time, they really just need to ship a title that's functionally fun to play and is polished enough that people can keep playing it.
    I'd drop off graphics entirely and put my focus there. Game pass will save it if it's actually fun.
     
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  3. Tkumpathenurpahl

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    At this point in time, might it just be better to keep delaying it, and release it as an XboxTwo launch exclusive?
     
  4. Silent_Buddha

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    Something that I'm wondering. Was Epic's acquisition of Cloudgine driven by Epic or driven by Tencent who own 40% of Epic?

    I say this because monetization of games in China relies heavily on always on internet connections. How better to ensure that a game is always on than by having it process a significant part of the game online in a such a way that it can't be replicated on any single PC and can stand out in comparison to games that don't leverage that ability?

    Looking at it that way, it's possible that while Epic were interested in it, Amazon might not be.

    Regards,
    SB
     
    #4 Silent_Buddha, Jul 16, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2018
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  5. iroboto

    iroboto Daft Funk
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    It's not the type of game that needs horsepower though. It's the type of game that requires good gameplay. Success in this department will help drive sales into next gen as it would be backwards compatible.
     
  6. Tkumpathenurpahl

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    Agreed, but we've not seen anything like Crackdown 3's destruction this generation, so I think it would be a great showcase for Microsoft's next generation machine, and an opportunity to create some buzz and get people talking.
     
  7. iroboto

    iroboto Daft Funk
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    oh you mean offload the cloud server destruction to onto the console itself?

    yea, I think it wouldn't solve the problem moving this locally. the cloud based destruction uses several servers that are high end CPU cores.
    moving all that to a single APU, it's not going to happen if the scale is the same.
     
  8. Tkumpathenurpahl

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    Yes and no. Yes, in that moving to a more powerful console could provide enough local processing power to render a limited destruction model during single player.

    No, in the sense that I think it would be of benefit to the launch of the XboxTwo for it to release with a game that offers something no-one's seen before. Microsoft have the best box for third party content atm, but they're not going to turn around this generation's fortunes, so I think they may as well turn their 1st party efforts to the next generation so they can hit the ground running.
     
  9. iroboto

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    hmm interesting, I see it differently.
    They need to build really damn good will now at the end of the generation to hit the ground running for next gen. Very much like Sony did with PS3 running to PS4. They ended on the highest notes possible driving demand and hype for the next console.
     
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  10. BRiT

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  11. Shifty Geezer

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    I'll have to go revisit the old demos, but the destruction in that trailer doesn't look to the level of what I remember (perhaps wrongly) in the original demo. Specifically, I'm noticing large and obvious geometrical pieces (32 seconds and 46 seconds), whereas I thought the original demo had very irregular pieces break off? As I say though, I'll have to go look, but my gut reaction to this trailer is the destruction looks toned down to be doable locally, or simplified regards what needs to be coordinated. Instead of sending over zillions of 3D particles, a bunch of premade pieces perhaps just need to be synchronised?
     
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  12. Shifty Geezer

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    Accidentally quoted other thread??

    As for overselling, they've all done it. No value to be had in that discussion. The debate here is and always was what could technically be achieved with cloud gaming. The promise of cloud-assists seems to have been left behind. As an online only game, the physics are represent what level of detail can be handled over the internet. Early prototypes of Crackdown 3 pointed to a tech that could handle huge amounts of game data, which would be moving the tech forwards. This latest trailer suggests there's no advance on what's already happening (environment destruction like Battlefield perhaps). There may be more to the game than what's shown, of course, but the immediate impression is far from the detailed destruction shown here...



    In short, don't make it about MS or promises, but tech and development. Has the game been pared back, and if so, why? What are Cloudgine bringing to the table?
     
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  13. goonergaz

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    It's paired back because it was never able to deliver on the promise of the demo. Whilst I may have gone a bit 'fanboi' let's just look at the last few tech demos that have been showing the future of gaming on a particular platform (HoloLens another example). Regarding this in particular, it's funny because I read so many 'experts' saying that it was totally possible and then 'no-nothings' like me questioning what it would bring (I also recall mentioning the destruction in Battlefield 4 as a comparison) and wondering how it would work 'in the real world' outside of controlled tech demos.

    I mean, in many ways it makes sense to do big calculations like destruction online, so I'm not saying the tech doesn't work - but then that relies on you being online and having a reasonable connection, and we know that isn't the case for a large chunk of gamers. I personally think (like HoloLens) it was shown far too early when it was still a generation or so away from being ready. Let's face it, cloud was being thought of as the saviour for the power gap between the PS4 and Xbox One (or certainly that's how the Xbox guys I knew were selling it).

    Anyway, feel free to delete this post - I realise it doesn't have anything 'technical' to explain why the game has been cut back.
     
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  14. Shifty Geezer

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    There's been a huge amount of doubt regards what cloud could actually bring in reality. I'd say the doubt has out-weighed the belief by a considerable margin. It certainly hasn't been the case that all the 'experts' agreed. That's true of pretty much every tech too - some 'experts' think it'll work,l and some doubt it based on known limitations. Ultimately though, it's plain stupid to approach every new-tech discussion from the POV of 'these guys always lie so they'll be doing it again and this won't be possible." Discussion here should always be on the technical possibilities and problems and whether we think it could actually work or not.
     
  15. Skaal

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    Crackdown 3 looks rather awefull i would say... it is utter nosense anyway.. the premise i mean. So there are "Agents" wich jump and fly around an area that is supposed to look like a City(?!). Instead it looks like a pile of futuristic theather mise-en-scene, waiting to get hit by a bullet to fold into self just like a house of cards.. and what about that aimbot aiming? This is not supported aim - this is aimbot aim.. how fun can that be? And why they are even fighting ? because red vs blue? but then why they use deadly weapons ?
    And is ther conflict reason enough to level a complete city over it?!

    This bullshit steals the Throphy for the dumbest gameplay and narative from the Just Cause Series - and that will mean something... wow!
     
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  16. BRiT

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    It could easily be part of the advanced Agent Training Program in a Holodeck. Why wouldn't future task forces use futuristic tools for training exercises?

    That's how other games like Titanfall 1 and Titanfall 2 explained their WarZone/Wargames training grounds maps.
     
  17. iroboto

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    Its' the 3rd title in the series. Everything you have complained about has been in the game since the first Crackdown.
    It's not for you I get it, but clearly you're not the target audience if they've made a 3rd.

    Not all games need to follow a trend or need any reason to exist. People just play games to play games. If all the games needed a conflict or needed all these things, then gaming will become uniformly boring.

    have you seen the top 10 NPD sellers? Most of them are first person shooters with some marginal differences between them.

    The game isn't about aiming. So it's should be abundantly pretty clear it's about movement and positioning and timing of your weapons. Have you ever played WoW arena? That is the most competitive RPG arena game, and you don't aim. You lock on and fire off your abilities. You must find ways to break line of sight, kite folks, time your cool downs and abilities and work as a team to win.

    There is no aiming, hell you can shoot behind you in WoW arena, and not a single person once complained about that.
     
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  18. Shifty Geezer

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    That's what I got from the trailer. This is only part of the game, and explains the multiplayer part made by a different studio to the other parts.
     
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  19. turkey

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    Looks totally like Breakout from Halo 5 (I love that mode) mixed with the original demo



    It's in French but 40 odd mins of gameplay. Stuff gets smashed and it's not all perfect square blocks. It's not an out and out destruction demo just gameplay but looks good fun to me.
     
  20. AzBat

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