Talking nasty with Tim Sweeney

Discussion in 'Graphics and Semiconductor Industry' started by DarN, Dec 15, 2004.

  1. DarN

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    GamingGroove has a nice interview with Tim Sweeney:
    LINKY
     
  2. Geo

    Geo Mostly Harmless
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    Yikes! Life without AA would be pretty ugly. Somebody fix it, quick!

    Here's an interesting back-down. .

     
  3. Dave Baumann

    Dave Baumann Gamerscore Wh...
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    Vince would love that one! ;)
     
  4. digitalwanderer

    digitalwanderer Dangerously Mirthful
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    I NEED MY AA!!!!! :shock:
     
  5. Reverend

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    This is actually a very good short interview.
     
  6. Miksu

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    I found the bit about programming languages really interesting. Aye, a good interview.
     
  7. MasterBaiter

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    You guys need to upgrade your moniters. :wink:

    I noticed that Tim mentioned Zbrush, but I'd be curious to know what other software they are using. I would assume Maya... Painter was mentioned many moons ago as well (I wonder if they still use this)...
     
  8. Tim

    Tim
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    They might use Maya, but 3ds Max has a bigger markedshare in the gaming industry and has better workflow for polygon modeling and is general more gaming oriented. Maya has an edge in regard to animation, and improved a lot when it comes to gaming oriented features.

    The development tools are availeble for both Maya and Max.
     
  9. Reverend

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    All the questions were good for me, save for the AF/AA one.

    Tim always tells me he wants the return of super-sampling :)
     
  10. nelg

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    PM it to him :twisted:
     
  11. PeterAce

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    More on these 'new types' of aliasing :

    http://www.gamedev.net/community/forums/topic.asp?topic_id=266373
     
  12. Humus

    Humus Crazy coder
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    I don't get the reasoning. Just because edge aliasing isn't the only kind of aliasing it makes multisampling useless?
    I would argue the other way around. Internal aliasing is a good argument for multisampling and against supersampling. Supersampling can't solve internal aliasing in the general case, so it's no solution. The only general solution is that the shader makes any antialiasing as needed for its particular situation. Multisampling can then take care of the edges cheaply and transparently.
     
  13. Reverend

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    Tim said multisampling is useless?
     
  14. GraphixViolence

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    Seems to me there's a simple and straightforward solution to this: support multisampling natively in the game. Accept the fact that it's a popular and useful feature, and just make sure the game handles it properly rather than constantly relying on IHV drivers to solve any issues.

    If by "costly" he means performance-wise, well, faster hardware is always coming out, and there's always the option to turn MSAA off if it's too slow on a particular system. If he meant costly transistor-wise - does he expect IHVs to actually drop this widely used feature from their future processors? Unless display resolutions get a lot higher than 1600x1200 or displays sizes start shrinking, this doesn't seem to make much sense either.

    The reason practically all modern hardware accelerates MSAA is because it's a straightforward technique that can improve image quality in almost any 3D application. If someone can come up with a similarly global solution for interior aliasing issues, I'm sure we will see that get accelerated as well. Until then, it's going to be up to developers to come up with solutions for their particular engine.
     
  15. Reverend

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    There is only one reason why MSAA is available on all the current hardware and SSAA is not.
     
  16. CosmoKramer

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    Easy, just move on from the ugly (hello, alpha texures anyone?) speedhack that is called multisampling and bring back rotated grid supersampling.
     
  17. Pete

    Pete Moderate Nuisance
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    If Tim thinks MSAA is costly, I don't think SSAA would be any more attractive from that POV.

    The GF6 series still offers (partial) SSAA, BTW, and it takes a correspondingly huge performance hit--even with 500MHz DDR.
     
  18. Killer-Kris

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    The bit that caught my attention was the discussion about modeling and all that...

    Can anyone enlighten me on why nurbs or other higher order surfaces aren't an option? Even if it's for just the normal map and then tesselated down to a relatively low resolution triangle mesh it would seem like a huge time saver.
     
  19. CosmoKramer

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    Yes of course SS is costly, primarily in fill-rate (including shader fill-rate) but it gets the job done while reducing all types of aliasing mentioned in this thread.

    If we also could get back proper anisotripic filtering (hey, wasn't competition supposed to be good for the consumers :roll:) things would be on the right track.
     
  20. Farid

    Farid Artist formely known as Vysez
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    Sweeney is not saying MSAA is useless, he's just implying that the "transistor budget" allocated to MSAA in modern V/GPUs should be used for resolving what he calls interior-aliasing problem, since, for him, MSAA is not that important anyway.
     
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