Surface 3 powered by cherry trail

Ars' 3DMark results are busted though..as seen earlier in this thread there's either a driver bug or throttling issue somewhere because the IceStorm results of a Surface 3 is normally around 25k (which is higher than an iPad air 2 btw)
 
There's still a point for the Atom CPU line. It is less powerful but also far more frugal on power. This makes it easier to design the product with regards to size, heat dissipation, and cost. Sure you can make a Core-M product last as long on battery power, but you need more batteries, and thus more weight and a larger package. And better cooling. Etc.
The Core-M are a specific implementation of the Broadwell architecture. It comes on pretty fancy package along with its south bridge (PCH-LP / whatever Intel calls that). The whole package is around 500mm2, the CPU is ~80mm2 @14nm, the PCH-lp looks mostly the same @32nm, for the reference the baytrail was ~100mm2 @ 22nm.
The "south bridge" in Core-M is a more potent piece of hardware that what is integrated in those Atom SOC.
To my point there is clearly more to Core-M manufacturing cost and sale price compared to an ATOM solution than the silicon of what one could call the APU alone (CPU+GPU+north brigde).
It's a smaller chip and thus cheaper to manufacture. It's mean to compete with the mid and low end ARM offerings. It's a bonus that it also encroaches on higher end offerings. Although the GPU is still a weak point of the arch compared to the high end ARM offerings.
Again that is pretty specific to the Core-M not to broadwell and the matching GPU architecture. Die size had few impact on price, Atom are not that far from those core i3. The biggest difference is that they are sold on different markets.

Core-M is there to straddle the line between laptop performance (for light workloads) and tablet portability.
Atom is there for tablet portability with the ability to run desktop apps.
The Core-M is indeed that, no argument here.
Until the mid/low end tablet market doesn't exist, there's still a purpose for Atom. The Surface 3 represents the top end of the Atom product line spectrum. I'm sure there will eventually be other tablets based on the same CPU in the 150-250 USD price range. Something that is unattainable by Core-M, which I don't expect to hit price points much lower than 500 USD (maybe 400 USD when they start getting discounted, but certainly not much lower than that) in a tablet form factor.

Regards,
SB
I agree again that the Core-M (its 2 cores, those 4MB of L2, those 24 EUs, the package and the PCH-LP)is not an option for lower end offering.
Now Intel could have design a lesser chip and a chip that is a SOC (Core-M consists of 2 chips + the package and the all thing is pretty fancy to remain thin enough).

Anyway they did not and I wonder if the reason they did is that Broadwell and/or their 14nm process ended up better than expect AND marketing concerns: especially for low and mid range Android tablet I could see costumers discard such a chip on stupid metric like the number of cores or on benchmarks results that have little to do with the actual device usage. I can see how terrifying the idea of designing a single core device could be in a marketing department.

I guess INtel will wait till Skylake to unify its offering.
 
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After looking at the Dell 7000's review on Anandtech, I believe the Surface 3 is priced ridiculously high,
I think Microsoft decided to apply very high margins to the tablet so that people will perceive it as a premium product.
Time will tell if the snake-oil sells.

Meanwhile, the Dell is looking incredible for its price and form factor. Granted, the 16:9 isn't the ideal screen ratio, but the screen is actually 10.8" so its width in portrait should be similar to the typical 10.1" 16:10 tablets.
The only difference is that it's 13mm taller and 2mm thicker. But then you gain a Core M performance and interchangeable standard M.2 components (SSD, wireless card, 3G/4G modem).
 
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wow... Surface 3 is almost as fast as 1000 USD Sony Vaio Tap 11 with Intel Core i5 4210Y.
here the benchmark for Vaio tap 11 http://www.3dmark.com/3dm/6651218

Microsoft with surface is crazy at optimizing their intel cpu+gpu. The optimization on Surface Pro 3 with intel core i3 Y also nice (it only throttle on temperature, not TDP/SDP).

so i think Surface 3 is totally acceptable for work and old games.

on vaio tap 11 i normally open hundreds of Chrome tabs, some photoshop, video editing, ms word, and Mischief drawing.

games work fine on 720p are older games like Portal 2. New games still works but the resolution need to be downgraded to 540p (still looks nice and sharp but jagged like hell) or blurry-mess 360p (Ori and blind forest, watch dogs).

EDIT:
its also a blazing fast android tabled when you install AMIDUOUS
 
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After looking at the Dell 7000's review on Anandtech, I believe the Surface 3 is priced ridiculously high,
I think Microsoft decided to apply very high margins to the tablet so that people will perceive it as a premium product.
Time will tell if the snake-oil sells.

Meanwhile, the Dell is looking incredible for its price and form factor. Granted, the 16:9 isn't the ideal screen ratio, but the screen is actually 10.8" so its width in portrait should be similar to the typical 10.1" 16:10 tablets.
The only difference is that it's 13mm taller and 2mm thicker. But then you gain a Core M performance and interchangeable standard M.2 components (SSD, wireless card, 3G/4G modem).

And build quality/materials is worse/cheaper. With a screen that is worse (AR and resolution, both are 10.8" devices). And battery life is certainly commendable and relatively equal between the two, but at the cost of additional weight (1.37 lbs versus 1.59 lbs). It also costs more in the base configuration. 499 USD versus 699 USD (with launch price discount of 250 USD). But you do get 2 more GBs and of course better performance. The next step up brings the same memory and storage, but at a greater price differential, 599 USD versus 749 USD (with launch price discount of 321 USD).

The Synaptics pen has issues at the edges of the screen while the NTrig doesn't. On the plus side it uses AAA batteries instead of AAAA batteries.

The optional keyboard has a worse typing experience and worse trackpad (going by various review comments) than the type cover for S3. On the plus side it had an additional battery in it, which of course comes at the cost of significantly more weight.

Just like the S3, everything is an optional accessory.

I was giving this one a serious look prior to choosing to go with the S3. The aspect ratio was the major factor. 16:9 is just way to narrow for comfortable Pen use and Productivity. Even for browsing the web, I find 16:9 on a smallish screen to be uncomfortable. It either doesn't display enough information vertically when in landscape mode or cuts things off at the sides in portrait mode when text is a comfortable reading size.

Other than that it is a decent Core-M tablet implementation for the price...when discounted as it currently is. At full price, the value proposition worsens significantly, in my eyes as then it doesn't compare as favorably to the better built Surface Pro 3.

When Skylake comes out, I'll be giving Dell another good look. Hopefully Surface Pro 4 will wait and use Skylake as well rather than launch sooner with Core-M. That will be an interesting comparison. Just hopefully Dell finally ditches 16:9 by then.

theres also new asus t100 family that cheaper than S3 and have keyboard included.

This was the other device I was seriously looking at. It is amazingly beautiful and amazingly slim and amazingly light. And comes in at a relatively affordable price.

It has a 16:10 AR (10.1") screen which is serviceable, but not as good as the 3:2 AR (10.8") screen on the S3. It has only 2 GB of memory and 32 GB of storage with an option for a model with 64 GB of storage. 2 GB of memory is pretty limiting, but decent for light recreational use and more limited productivity use.

The good is that it comes in at a 399 USD (449 USD for 64 GB of storage) and includes the keyboard which, assuming it uses the same one as the T300 Chi is very good (http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2015/04/a...0-chi-review-wont-win-hearts-will-turn-heads/ ). It has support for an active digitizer, although that's an optional accessory.

The potentially bad. The Asus T300 chi claims up to 8 hours battery life. The reality is significantly worse. The review I linked above got just over 3 hours and they speculate the 1080p screen (their review version had the 1440p screen) might get up to 4 hours which is still half of the claimed. If the same applies to the T100 chi, we might be looking at only 5-6 hours of battery life for it. Extremely thin and light doesn't give lots of room for batteries, unfortunately.

At comparable specs it's definitely a good value however. 449 USD versus 499 USD. And that's with included keyboard which is 139 USD extra for the S3. Aluminum construction (T100 chi) versus magnesium alloy construction (S3) is closer than plastic versus magnesium alloy.

This one was a significantly harder decision compared to the Dell Venue 11 Pro 7000. Since I don't really need a keyboard for my tablet (I have plenty of bluetooth keyboards I can pair up if needed) the keyboard wasn't a factor in my decision. The killer was the lack of an option for 4 GB of memory (I pre-ordered the 599 USD S3 for the 4 GB of memory), slightly worse screen (AR and resolution), slightly smaller screen (10.1" versus 10.8"), lack of integrated kickstand, and potential for worse battery life. All that was worth the premium I paid on the S3.

I really do love how thin the T100 Chi is, however. Such a beautiful device.

Regards,
SB
 
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I expect the price for the surface 3 to get adjusted when the surface 4 pro hits. It seems like preorders at the MS stores are very good and they may be sold out soon of preorders. That's pretty good considering I've heard it from friends at both MS stores that are about 15 minutes away from each other.

I bet when the fall hits they will slap windows 10 on it and lower the price $100.
 
I expect the price for the surface 3 to get adjusted when the surface 4 pro hits. It seems like preorders at the MS stores are very good and they may be sold out soon of preorders. That's pretty good considering I've heard it from friends at both MS stores that are about 15 minutes away from each other.

I bet when the fall hits they will slap windows 10 on it and lower the price $100.

Yeah, one of the review/previews I read/saw mentioned that they asked a random store employee how pre-orders were going and they said they were amazed at how quickly they were being pre-ordered. If that's anything to go by, Microsoft may have underestimated the demand the Surface 3 has generated.

Not surprising considering how much press coverage they are getting. Forbes, USA Today, The Motley Fool (holds share in Google and Apple but not MS), CNN and some other major outlets are giving it major thumbs up. All of those generally target upper middle class wage earners and up, except maybe USA Today. So people that don't mind paying a premium for a better experience on a better built device.

MS has basically said they aren't in this to compete with their OEMs. They are positioning the entire Surface line as premium devices with premium build quality. And it appears to be working. Surface Pro 3 has had far greater success than I expected it would.

It's certainly a different approach than they are taking with Windows Phone where they are targetting the low end to gain marketshare. But then the situation is different as there aren't a multitude of OEMs that they rely on in the phone space and they don't command a large share of the phone market as they do the personal computing market.

Regards,
SB
 
I expect the windows phone stuff to change in the fall. I bet they will launch a top down line of Lumia
 
And build quality/materials is worse/cheaper. With a screen that is worse (AR and resolution, both are 10.8" devices). And battery life is certainly commendable and relatively equal between the two, but at the cost of additional weight (1.37 lbs versus 1.59 lbs). It also costs more in the base configuration. 499 USD versus 699 USD (with launch price discount of 250 USD). But you do get 2 more GBs and of course better performance. The next step up brings the same memory and storage, but at a greater price differential, 599 USD versus 749 USD (with launch price discount of 321 USD).
That's the thing, in Europe the pricing is completely different: 600€ for the Surface 3 2GB/64GB and 720€ for the 4GB/128GB.
Meanwhile, the Dell costs 660€ with 4GB/128GB.
I can't speak of quality and materials since I haven't seen both live, but I'd gladly trade the magnesium alloy for a decent polymer if the later gives me modular components and the prospect of upgrades and much higher longevity.



I really do love how thin the T100 Chi is, however. Such a beautiful device.
Did you take a look at the Yoga 2 tablet with Windows?
IMO it's the best Windows+BayTrail tablet in the market. The ergonomics from the cylindrical hinge are unmatched (single-hand usage is great!), bluetooth keyboard/cover that attaches magnetically is bundled by default, WiFi is 5GHz capable, battery life is unmatched and it even folds out a stand like the Surface series.
All that for 400€ in Europe.

AIUAN7T.jpg
 
Did you take a look at the Yoga 2 tablet with Windows?
IMO it's the best Windows+BayTrail tablet in the market. The ergonomics from the cylindrical hinge are unmatched (single-hand usage is great!), bluetooth keyboard/cover that attaches magnetically is bundled by default, WiFi is 5GHz capable, battery life is unmatched and it even folds out a stand like the Surface series.
Only ships in a low-end configuration though. Well in contrast to windows rock bottom devices with 16GB flash it at least works properly but 32GB is still really not much (neither is the 2GB memory). Sure it's got a sd slot but both the Surface 3 and that Dell 7000 have already 64GB in their low-end configuration.
 
That's the thing, in Europe the pricing is completely different: 600€ for the Surface 3 2GB/64GB and 720€ for the 4GB/128GB.
Meanwhile, the Dell costs 660€ with 4GB/128GB.
I can't speak of quality and materials since I haven't seen both live, but I'd gladly trade the magnesium alloy for a decent polymer if the later gives me modular components and the prospect of upgrades and much higher longevity.

Ouch... But not really. Taking into account VAT that's just slightly more than the US prices. Great deal on the Dell over there, howerver. That's cheaper than the Dell that you can get in the US, when adjusting for VAT. 689 Euros on the French site, I'm guessing price varies by region in the EU. O.O Damn. Still sit's cheaper than the US version though.

As to the Yoga 2...

The bottom cylinder is nice when used as a laptop as it holds the battery and thus lowers the center of gravity of the screen meaning you can have a lighter keyboard without the docked tablet always being in danger of tipping over. But other than that, I really don't like the aesthetics of it.

Myself I like the kickstand approach of the Surface 3. When used on a table I can use any keyboard I want without having to have something to hold the tablet up. And the ability to have it at a very low angle allows for a significantly improved pen experience (drawing diagrams, inking, doodling, note taking, writing out equations, etc.). Something I'd have to pay extra for, as well as having it take up extra space with added weight if I had to get a seperate device with similar functionality (adjustable stand).

When on a plane, bus, train, etc. I tend not to do much work activities, so a keyboard dock, while nice, isn't high up on my things I need. There's 2 things that can make a keyboard dock worth it to me however. If it has a battery for extended battery life and/or an extra storage bay for a secondary HDD/SSD integrated into the keyboard dock. Those would make a compelling case for me to get one. But if it's just a dock-able Bluetooth keyboard and nothing else, I'll pass.

32 GB of storage was adequate in the past and is a decent compromise for budget oriented devices. But 2 GB memory and 32 GB of storage are a bit low for me. At a minimum, for my own use, I'm looking at 4 GB of memory and 64 GB storage at a minimum (with a cheap 64 GB microSD care that gives a decent 128 GB). I can still see a point for 1 or 2 GB memory configurations and 32 GB storage for devices that are under 300 USD, however. Just they aren't devices I'm currently looking at. Those are better suited to content consumption and not terribly good at production or content creation.

Regards,
SB
 
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Lenovo Yoga 2 tablets aren't real competitors for Surface 3, but Lenovo Thinkpad Tablet 10 is: http://shop.lenovo.com/de/de/tablets/thinkpad/thinkpad-10/#tab-customize

Yeah. That's pretty close. It's a little smaller (10.1" vs. 10.8") and slightly lighter (1.3 lbs vs. 1.37 lbs) with a 16:10 AR. Support active digitizer pens. Has a non-adjustable viewing angle keyboard dock with no battery (bleh).

Interestingly enough it's more expensive than the Surface 3 (at least in the US). 499 USD versus 540 USD (with 59 USD discount, retail is 599 USD) for the 2 GB/64 GB model. 599 USD versus 630 USD (with 69 USD discount, retail is 699 USD) for the 4 GB/128 GB version.

Hmmm, I'm surprised it hasn't been discounted more considering it's more expensive with last years Atom CPU (Baytrail)

Regards,
SB
 
As to the Yoga 2...
(...)

The weight distribution on the cylinder is also great for when you hold it with one hand. I have the equivalent Sony Tablet S and I've held the Yoga 2 and holding it with one hand is comfortable.
I also have the Asus Infinity TF700 and it's really pretty and made of aluminum and very thin.. and I can't hold it with one hand for longer than 30 seconds before starting to feel the aluminum edges cutting into my skin.
BTW, the Yoga 2 is made of aluminum too.

I suggested the Yoga 2 in contrast to the T100 Chi, which also has only 2GB of RAM and seems like a very similar device all around.

Regardless, I'd say that waiting for the 2015 updates of all these BayTrail models may be worth it. Computex might be a reasonable time to expect these models to come with Cherry Trail SoCs and 4GB of RAM, for a similar price.
 
I would say Win x32 Bing is for free.

And the retail version of Windows 8.1 Pro costs 140€. OEM versions which you can only legally buy together with a motherboard, hard drive, CPU and RAM (or a new computer) usually cost around 80€.
So for Lenovo to charge an additional 180€ for the non-Bing windows means they're probably taking over 100€ of additional profits with zero compromise.

It also means that if I go into a store and purchase the Thinkpad with Bing, I should be eligible to purchase an OEM version of Windows Pro. Purchasing the Bing tablet and the Win 8 Pro separately to install at home would come 100€ cheaper than buying the same tablet with Windows Pro pre-installed. Plus, I'd keep a spare Win 8 Bing license key for using on a mini-pc or something like that.
 
The cheaper ones are also missing the digitizer, which accounts for €50. There may be other differences too..
 
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