Surface 3 powered by cherry trail

Discussion in 'Mobile Devices and SoCs' started by eastmen, Mar 31, 2015.

  1. eastmen

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    MS just announced the surface 3 (not pro)

    It runs full windows 8.1 using cherry trail with either 2 or 4 gigs of ram with a 10.8inch 1920x1280 screen vs 12inch 2160x1440 screen. It comes in at only 1.37lbs vs 1.76lbs of the pro 3.

    http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/pdp/Surface-3/productID.314885500

    The only real con I see is the kick stand is only 3 potions vs the stand on the pro 3 and the price. Its $500 for 2 gigs with 64gb storage an wifi I'm sure we are looking at $700 or so for the 128gig with 4GB with lte then the pen is $50 and the keyboard is still $100
     
  2. orangpelupa

    orangpelupa Elite Bug Hunter
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    its 600 USD for 4GB RAM + 128GB SSD.

    ugh... AMD really need to seriously make low power low thermal APU. Nowadays with Intel CPU is already over-speed for many things including games, while the GPU is under-speed.

    EDIT:
    scratch that. Surface 3 is fanless. it probably will have horrible thermal throttling for anything that needs sustained high-performance for a minute or more.
     
    #2 orangpelupa, Mar 31, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2015
  3. fehu

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    It's a 6W soc
     
  4. eastmen

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    is it $600 for the 4GB/128 that's not so bad then. But still I can get the sp3 i3 64gig for $700 at this point in time.
     
  5. mczak

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    This is Cherry-Trail, hence atom cores. The GPU is also scaled down (compared to GT2 Broadwell), though should be a lot better than the one in BayTrail.
    Thus it shouldn't have the throttling issues fanless Core-M has. Of course that doesn't mean it's faster - quite the contrary peak performance is a lot lower than fanless Core-M designs. As a wild guess though sustained performance may be quite similar to such designs (while being cheaper of course).
     
  6. orangpelupa

    orangpelupa Elite Bug Hunter
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    it have very high max clock speed and fan less. thats why i suspect it will throttle bad for sustain performance.

    but ms also can do the opposite, they can ignore intels's limit and put their own, faster, limit. They has done it on Surface Pro 3 with intel Y series with 15W TDP and 7 Watt SDP (they make it able to stay on 15Watt without throttling to the 7W SDP, maybe they simply disabled the SDP?)

    it was talked a while ago on B3D on windows tablet topic.
     
  7. fehu

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    One of my friend brought about six months ago an acer baytrail 10" 2GB/64GB with the battery/keyboard for little more than 200€
    Now I understand that S3 is a better product on all aspects, but 499 for the base model? :evil:
     
  8. ToTTenTranz

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    This is designed to go head-to-head against the top-end Android and iOS tablets. Therefore, it's priced similarly to the Galaxy Tab Note and Pro and 128GB WiFi ipad air 2.
    Notice how Microsoft didn't really cut any corners on the tablet: WiFi AC, (apparently) pre-calibrated display, USB 3.0, fresh-off the factory new top-end Cherry Trail, up to 4GB RAM, <9mm thick, DisplayPort, new digital pen..
     
  9. mczak

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    You can't disable the SDP as such a thing doesn't really exist - this is a pure marketing number.
    You CAN however reconfigure the TDP. And the turbo can be reconfigured as well (IIRC you could configure it like "allow running at twice the configured TDP for half an hour"). I actually long wondered about how different notebooks configure this stuff, especially since they sometimes show quite different performance despite using the same cpu. Unfortunately I've never found any review reading out these values...
    But of course if the design runs into thermal limits, tuning these bits won't help all that much.
    It is of course possible those atoms run into thermal limits indeed - I think with this form factor cooling 6W should be possible without a fan but who knows...
     
  10. zed

    zed
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    And of course the ditching of the 'perfect' 16:9 screen ratio o_O
     
  11. orangpelupa

    orangpelupa Elite Bug Hunter
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    surface pro i3 with intel i3 Y4020 (no turbo)
    http://ark.intel.com/products/76609/Intel-Core-i3-4020Y-Processor-3M-Cache-1_50-GHz
    http://www.anandtech.com/show/8287/first-look-the-799-microsoft-surface-pro-3-with-core-i3

    vaio tap 11 with intel i5 Y4210 with turbo boost
    http://ark.intel.com/products/76611/Intel-Core-i5-4210Y-Processor-3M-Cache-up-to-1_90-GHz
    http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Sony-Vaio-Tap-11-SVT-1121G4E-B-Tablet.107925.0.html

    i3 Y4020 is faster than i5 Y4210

    if Microsoft only extend the turbo time as you suggested, they enabled a feature that intel has disabled. if they extend the TDP 15 watt time, it beyond what intel allows (or they simply disable the 6 watt SDP), or they cheat like samsung with benchmarks ( microsoft disabled SDP only on benchmarks?).

    *i suspect MS "disabled" the SDP by defining power level value by themselves that stick close to the TDP.

    basically... its hard comparing tablets performance with he same spec, because the manufacturer able to fiddle with performance.
     
  12. eastmen

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    both surface pro 3 and 3 are 3:2 designs that work really well and are far better for writing than the 16:9.
     
  13. ToTTenTranz

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    I'd argue that 16:10 is my preferred aspect ratio and was ready to bitch about it. Then I noticed the difference for a fullHD tablet between 3:2 (1920*1280) and 16:10 (1920*1200) is.. 80 pixels.

    So meh.. let that row of 80 pixels be. The tablet is otherwise perfect for me. I think this Surface 3 tablet is great.
     
    #13 ToTTenTranz, Apr 1, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2015
  14. Kaarlisk

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    I'm actually in the camp that likes wide tablets – I used the iPad for a year and was very happy with 4:3. And the two reasons why I didn't really want to buy the Asus T100 or anything similar were the aspect ratio and RAM/storage.
    So yeah, this new Surface 3 is actually great – it basically does not make compromises. I just wish it was $100 cheaper and the keyboard cost less :D but, of course, one can't have everything and better that it costs this much and actually demonstrates what a Windows tablet should be.
     
  15. orangpelupa

    orangpelupa Elite Bug Hunter
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    16:9 is just too thin. Holding it horizontal for web is not good (too small if normal zoom, too little vertical if fit to page). Holding vertical is just weird.
     
  16. Wynix

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    16:9 is good for smartphones, but tablets need at least 16:10.
     
  17. eastmen

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    well as soon as they allow the educator discount let me know if any of you in jersey or by nyc want this. My gf gets 15% off and I know some employees so might be able to get another 5% on top of that.
     
  18. zed

    zed
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    https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/spin-off-personal-aspect-ratio-issues.52877/
    Note bkilian, joker454, Graham, Alphawolf, RudeCurve, ScottArm etc and you eastmen (in other thread) praising 16:9 for tablets whilst some like myself said it was too narrow
    fastforward to 2014 and MS ditch 16:9 (because its too narrow) are these ppl still thinking 16:9 is perfect? Why not?

    Shall I mention those guys vs mine thoughts on Kinect before MS effectively ditched it

    MS, I am open to job offers, I can save you 100s of millions by saying whether or not an idea is good or not. Show me the money :mrgreen:
     
  19. eastmen

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    Your right , I actually like the 16:9 on my surface pro. Its perfect for games and typing. However like I said in my post for pen input the 3:2 is better
     
  20. Grall

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    Manufacturers like MS (or Apple) could just put a vapor chamber on the inside of the metal enclosure that makes contact with the SoC, and thermal throttling would basically be a thing of the past. You could ratchet up the performance quite a bit further still with the improved cooling as well. A vapor chamber is dirt simple in its construction as well and very effective (Mac Pro uses three of them around its "thermal core" to dissipate upwards of 500W using a single fan/sink combo...)
     
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