Stadia, Google Game Streaming platform [2019]

Discussion in 'Console Industry' started by ultragpu, Jun 29, 2018.

  1. Silent_Buddha

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    For me it's not so much glee at them floundering but satisfaction in that things are going about how I expected them to.

    IE - Google being a bit arrogant and cavalier at their entrance into the game streaming arena. Especially when you consider that Google as a company and it's various parts has almost no experience with non-mobile gaming. They have no experience and no reference point to understand what console and PC gamers want nor any experience with delivering an experience that console or PC gamers expect.

    I understand that part of this is them trying to deliver that experience to non console and non PC gamers, but when your offerings are all basically PC games...what do they expect. And further when they make claims of 4k60 gameplay. Claims that this will revolutionize gaming. Claims that this will deliver gaming experiences beyond what is possible on PC and console.

    Claims that fly in the face of everything that has come before it.

    And when they announced they were launching the service AND charging for it. The expectation was that, OK, they've mostly finished and we get to see some of these claims come to fruition.

    Only it didn't. It basically played out almost exactly like it has with previous streaming solutions. Only, it was less polished with more missing features and almost none of the stuff they claimed they would deliver.

    Imagine my surprise on seeing itmeJP open up his founder package and start everything up only to notice.
    • Oh the wireless controller doesn't work wirelessly. Coming in a future update.
    • Subpar graphics on a business internet connection in a city with a Google datacenter. The best possible condition to play it in.
    • Many, many other things that were noted as coming at some nebulous future time.
    So basically get people to pay for Alpha/Beta access. I expect things like this from small indie developers or people trying to scam consumers. Not something I expect from a multi-billion USD corporation with Google's reputation.

    To be fair, I don't think Microsoft is going to fare much better with Xcloud. But then they aren't treating it like a released product and charging people for the pleasure of Alpha/Beta testing their service. They're actually treating it as an Alpha/Beta test of a product that is not ready for the consumer space.

    So...if there's any glee on my part it's all about.
    • Google shouting to the world that they know better than anyone else how to deliver a quality gaming experience over the internet.
    • Google making some grandiose claims about what they will deliver.
    • Releasing it as a paid product
      • The free version is coming at a "later date" much like most of the features they claim they will have.
    • Seeing almost none of their claims coming to fruition.
      • Promptly start blaiming everyone but themselves.
        • The ISPs are to blame.
        • The customers are to blame.
        • The developers are to blame.
        • Google is NOT to blame.
    • Oh, and did I mention that it's a paid product?
    If instead they had delivered on their claims, I'd have been absolutely amazed and astonished at what they'd managed to accomplish, even if it wasn't something for me (any added latency is latency I don't want) and I have a bandwidth cap on my internet.

    But I still would have been properly amazed if they'd delivered on their 4k60 claim with lower latency than any streaming service that came before them. As it is, the only interesting positive from their launch of the service is that it'll run in a Chrome browser. Yippee?

    Regards,
    SB
     
    #521 Silent_Buddha, Dec 7, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2019
  2. DSoup

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    You're comparing Stadia to just one method of consuming Xbox and PlayStation games. Microsoft offer a GamePass deal where you don't pay for your Xbox up front (is it Xbox All Access?), and if you don't keep paying it off, you lose it. Then there is also GamePass, xCloud and PSNow - options for playing games without an actual box. Is a lone PSNow streaming subscription without a PlayStation that different to Stadia? You can 'buy' games that you can't play unless you keep paying Sony for the subscription (rental of remote PlayStation hardware) for PSNow.

    PS4 digital licences are flakey, it's why there is a Restore Licences option in settings. You expect to renew licences if you change systems but not restoring from a backup when swapping HDDs. I've had licences 'expire' (even though the export date is Never) when PS4 cannot connect to PSN for weeks or sometimes just when some game required a hard reset of PS4. The 'database' also auto-rebuilds on restart, but the licences do not. If there is no PSN, your digital purchases are worthless and despite what folks say about disc-based games being safe, many games will not work when freshly installed from disc on a PS4 if the PS4 cannot connect to PSN. Why? I don't know. :nope:
     
  3. Shifty Geezer

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    Ignoring the fact that you don't buy these games as they are like Netflix - you pay for an all-you-can-play library - both companies offer gamers what they want as well as a subscription model. Look at the gamer feedback for things like PSNow; it's generally derogatory.

    If that is how PSN works, the general populace doesn't know about it and I think you'll find PS fans get suitably angry if that is ever shown to be true. Googlage so far only throws up PSN+ free download license revocation and nothing about people's bought games losing a license.
     
  4. DSoup

    DSoup meh
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    I see they've changed it again. It used to be there was a library of games included in the subscription but you could play games you owned even if they weren't in the library.

    I doubt most people use their PS4 for prolonged periods where it's not had a chance to connect to PSN. Or had an instance where licences need to be renewed and not had a connection to PSN. Are there any DRM schemes used by games that do not require routine period validation of electronic licences? I don't know of any. On console, or PC. :nope:
     
  5. Shifty Geezer

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    Again, if Sony requires periodic validation of downloaded titles, why is that not expressed in the T&Cs? When they sell you a license for £60, why are the terms of that license not clearly spelled out if what you say happens? If it's true that you can buy a game from PSN, install it on your HDD, and then lose access to it after a certain time, the world should be informed. AFAIK license revocation is only for PS+ titles and titles you'll have got a refund for, where the executable remains on the console but the license to use it no longer exists.
     
  6. DavidGraham

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    FF15 on Stadia supports only 1080p30, it also runs at console settings.

     
  7. wco81

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    With all those TFs?
     
  8. Malo

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    Developers fault, not Google. It's up to developers to decide what resolutions and quality to use. :roll:
     
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  9. McHuj

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    It wouldn't surprise me if the Stadia servers were running multiple instances of the games and that's why they are running at such shitty settings.
     
  10. Jay

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    If this wasn't consistently the case I may have agreed with you.
    Some of those Tflops have gone missing.
     
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  11. Malo

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    The roll-eyes was an indication of sarcasm.

    I wonder if Google have the Publishers pay for extra power. Maybe they get a much worse cut if each 4k instance is dedicated to a full GPU.
     
  12. mpg1

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    Is it possible to run multiple instances simultaneously on a single GPU? I assumed the minimum for one instance would have to be a complete GPU. And in Stadia they are using an AMD 56 Compute Unit 10.7tflop GPU.

    My guess is has more to do with it being a new platform using Linux and Vulcan. Probably just doesn't have the same optimization throughout the stack given it hasn't been used as much.
     
  13. Malo

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    Yes, Vega was designed with this in mind, allowing data centers to allocate multiple virtual GPUs from a single unit. Navi doesn't have this capability AFAIK.
     
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  14. bgroovy

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    Technically? AMD has virtual GPU tech for VEGA. Does Stadia actually allow this is another question. I suspect they do and publishers have some incentive to choose this option.
     
  15. mpg1

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    Well the incentive to have multiple instances on a single GPU would be on Google's end.
     
  16. Silent_Buddha

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    Blah, read things incorrectly.
     
  17. bgroovy

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    I'm imagining that they could receive some financial consideration for using a fraction of a GPU per instance for your game instead of the full GPU. We have no idea how the revenue is actually split.
     
  18. mpg1

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    My guess is revenue split is the same or very similar to other platforms...in that the publishers is probably getting 70% of a game sale and Google 30%.

    Also we've gone down the rabbithole of speculation here. As far I can remember Google never talked about scaleability in terms of partial gpu. Only single or multiple gpu's:

     
  19. BRiT

    BRiT (╯°□°)╯
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    Maybe if a game was setup to use 4 Stadia GPUs it could be the same as a single non-shared GPU...
     
  20. bgroovy

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    Just because they haven't talked about it doesn't mean it's not possible. And no one has said anything about how revenue is shared or what the economics behind this are. Maybe they take more than 30% by default since they are shouldering the hardware burden themselves, but if your game uses a fractional GPU that drops to 30 or 20. If you're making a simple indie game like Kine, why would you waste an entire 10TF gpu on that?
     
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