*Spin-off Thread* Subjective Thread of Pushing Consoles (rename #1)
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grandmaster
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Those are both highly subjective pronouncements and I'm not sure how they've been proved at all. More than that, why does MS have to 'answer it' directly? I mean, to my mind, there's yet to be a game on 360 that 'answers' what Naughty Dog has done with Uncharted, but it's hardly had any impact on the fortunes of the platform.
If that is the case, I don't think it will matter much tbh. As much as I want to see it myself, I don't believe the market will respond unfavourably to MS not finding answers (visually) to those games, and I don't think that sort of thing has really happened in previous generations either.
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grandmaster
Veteran
I don't think you can really underestimate the human factor though. There are certain developers that 'go beyond the metal' so to speak and seemingly have the ability to make consoles do whatever they want regardless of technical limitations! As I said earlier, I don't think there has been an 'answer' to Uncharted on 360, but I'll tell you what - I'm sure if ND put their skills to work on a 360 exclusive, we'd see something equally spectacular.
Console history has shown that the platforms with the most graphically and technically advanced games are not the ones that win in installed base, so I doubt it'll be any different this time around as far as technological edge leading to sales edge.
I disagree with some others here saying that there are no first-party, high-budget equivalents on the XB360 side to the Naughty Dogs or Guerillas of the PS3. I think Gears of War 2 is a very good indicator of the (current) upper-limit of the graphical capabilities of the XB360. You can't really argue the "high budget" part of this game, and although Unreal Engine 3.0 started off as a multiplatform engine, a version of it has probably spawned off and become extremely optimized and specialized for the XB360 hardware in particular (I think this is a fair assumption to make, if Epic knows what their priorities are in terms of supporting the platforms that make the biggest difference to their bottom line).
To me, for a studio like Naughty Dog or Guerilla to have achieved the kind of stunning graphical results they have, starting with a completely-from-scratch engine, built from the ground up for a radically new platform/architecture, and to actually have a final shipping product a few short years into the system's lifespan, is even more impressive. This is compared to games running on the UE3, which is an engine that already had years and years of effort and resources poured into its refinement and perfection for its own sake.
I disagree with some others here saying that there are no first-party, high-budget equivalents on the XB360 side to the Naughty Dogs or Guerillas of the PS3. I think Gears of War 2 is a very good indicator of the (current) upper-limit of the graphical capabilities of the XB360. You can't really argue the "high budget" part of this game, and although Unreal Engine 3.0 started off as a multiplatform engine, a version of it has probably spawned off and become extremely optimized and specialized for the XB360 hardware in particular (I think this is a fair assumption to make, if Epic knows what their priorities are in terms of supporting the platforms that make the biggest difference to their bottom line).
To me, for a studio like Naughty Dog or Guerilla to have achieved the kind of stunning graphical results they have, starting with a completely-from-scratch engine, built from the ground up for a radically new platform/architecture, and to actually have a final shipping product a few short years into the system's lifespan, is even more impressive. This is compared to games running on the UE3, which is an engine that already had years and years of effort and resources poured into its refinement and perfection for its own sake.
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woundingchaney
Regular
Sales statistics throughout much of the history of console gaming proves otherwise.
And overall visual level is not on par with KZ2 IMHO
I doubt that history will be good indicator of present ''console wars''
I may be wrong but now internet full with comparison and VS articles, people debated all day and night with platform has more pixels ,good textures ,lighting etc It is not common for PS2 cycle of life
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All the EuroGamer "vs" articles prove is that you can get a lot of page hits (read: advertising revenue) from baiting fanboys with comparisons. What a lot of other "vs" articles prove is that fact or measurement are not even required to do so
It certainly doesn't prove any link to the wider gaming populace's buying habits. Most PS3 owners probably haven't even heard of Killzone 2 yet.
Thing is the internet is not the general public, the vast majority of gamers have know idea what pixels, textures or whatever are, nor do they care. To be honest the most important technical aspect regarding KZ2 for me is that the developers have been given time to polish the game to the point where it actually feels finished. Quite unlike many other next gen games. Oh and lets not get into Gears KZ2 debate its pointless, they are two fantastic looking games. However both for me fall to Nuts and Bolts, truely astounding looking game!
Personally I think Viva Pinata, Kameo and PDZ each have some rather cool technical merits, especially considering they weren't the biggest budget productions on 360. IMO they were very pretty titles at the time
They were pretty because there was almost nothing to compare with at the time. I give credit though to Kameo's use of parallax mapping and Viva Piniata's "fur" like visuals.
Regardless Banjo is a newer game, and I was expecting much more. I tried it on a 42'' screen. And it didnt compare well to the likes of Gears, Mass Effect, Rachet, or Uncharted in terms of Visual Quality. The screens and videos looked better in my eyes, but experiencing the game in person didnt look as good. There was some kind of roughness to the graphics I couldnt tolerate much. I felt that it needed polish.
Blasphemer!!
ShadowRunner
Veteran
Comparing sales of consoles to see how much graphics matter to people doesnt work because there are other variables at play. If you had two consoles at exactly the same price and same games etc. the one with the prettiest graphics would be more popular.
When people say that the wii proves that graphics dont matter its total nonsense, they do matter but other factors can add up to have more effect.
But you have to factor in what type of capabilities are maxed out and for what. What was prioritised etc. Also lots of time to develope a game like KZ2 let's you fine tune artwork/design etc to cover up flaws, less impressive tech/limitations etc.
Starting from scratch for specific platform would be better. Just becouse they can create an engine that exploits the strenghts of the specific platform and goes hand in hand with the games layout.
They haven't. Behind the dark artowork layer it really doesn't differ itself so much from other heavy titles for consoles. +/- for different tech but on averge...
I'm sure people would be drooling as much for other titles if the devs would trow out tech hype words to the fans in all directions. Ray-tracing anyone?
And why it lacks the "oomph" that the SP campaign gives you. In MP it is another quite well done MP game in the same "fight-ring" as other games, thats it.
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Indeed.
In Kameo I was very impressed by the water especially, my fave effect in graphics
Kameo is still the example of water in games that impresses me most, I like Viva Pinata's use of terrain tessellation too, and PDZ had some nice post process effects. Other than that I just love the richness and artistic direction of Rare games, but that's just me.
I agree about Banjo, it didn't impress me either. I actually thought it would be the accumulation of nice visual techniques from their last few games...and then some.
woundingchaney
Regular
Visual capability is obviously not enough to warrant some suggested massive increase in sales, such a thing has not mattered in the past and does not matter by the current trends in the industry today.
It may or may not be a relevant factor but suggesting that it is a dramatic impact on the outcome of sales trends is more than overstating its importance. To suggest that gamers always want the platform with the better visuals is completely incorrect.
.Melchiah.
Regular
Have you actually tried the multiplayer beta?
Still, comparing scripting and linearity, which can be found on every single player game (including certain rival franchise often compared to KZ2), to prerendered backdrops sounds unfair to me. Especially as I haven't heard anyone mention the same comparison in relation to the other franchise.
My dad is better than your dad.
But on a serious note, my dad really is better than your dad.
My friend brought his PS3 over and I showed him some Killzone2 vids thinking he'd be blown away. He didn't care at all. I guess it isn't his style of game. He's pretty casual, I guess. GTA4 and LBP is more his thing.
Am I on topic? I don't know.
But on a serious note, my dad really is better than your dad.
My friend brought his PS3 over and I showed him some Killzone2 vids thinking he'd be blown away. He didn't care at all. I guess it isn't his style of game. He's pretty casual, I guess. GTA4 and LBP is more his thing.
Am I on topic? I don't know.
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