*spawn* GCN blocks on die shots

Discussion in 'Console Technology' started by GravityX, Apr 22, 2014.

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  1. GravityX

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    Curious.

    I was hoping someone could explain the differences within part of the gpu cores shown below. Just wanted an explanation as to why they look different. Why do some of the parts look smaller? (Again not even sure what those parts are.)

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Sorry for wasting your time if this is dumb.
     
  2. TheAlSpark

    TheAlSpark Moderator
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    Those ought to be the 64KB register banks.

    And for future reference, please don't cite misterxmedia. Ever.
     
  3. Graham

    Graham Hello :-)
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    No idea why they are different, but it's likely a fairly mundane reason. I'm sure someone else could explain.
    The image looks like it has been created to imply the xb1 APU has more square bits than the ps4 has rectangular bits (!). Which clearly is absolute proof that the ps4 is doomed and Sony should just give up.

    Sigh. Guess I'll have to look for a new job.
     
  4. TheAlSpark

    TheAlSpark Moderator
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    [​IMG]
     
  5. GravityX

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    Thanks.

    Yeah, I kinda knew that was risky. Sorry about that.

    Follow up if possible. Is the following statement false, based on your understanding?

    "tile approximates the number of alus".

    Again apologies.
     
  6. Graham

    Graham Hello :-)
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    statement = very false
     
  7. GravityX

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    Thanks for your time.
     
  8. DmitryKo

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    These tiles look like cache memory.


    BTW, how the building blocks are arranged is not indicative of anything. There are multiple ways to make a physical layout of the same chip, and we know for sure that these APUs are both based on AMD Jaguar cores.

    There are basically two very separate stages of VLSI design. First, you need to come with a functional high-level language description of your processor and develop a detailed digital state machine based on this description. Second, you need to trace it down to actual gates and manufacturing processes used by the fab. This second stage, designing a physical layout, is basically an art and requires a lot of experience and experimentation, even with the aid of CAD software. There are unlimited variants of physical design for the same logical design (though of course there are some established practical rules).
     
  9. liquidboy

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    I had this discussion months ago on how to me there are some odd reseblmences in those register banks between WiiU and XB1's CU's

    [​IMG]

    I have other thoughts on this BUT not for this thread...

    reference to pic from here : http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1702966&postcount=4509

    p.s. yes they are cache blocks
     
  10. Pixel

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    So just correct me if I'm wrong those misterxmedia photos represent a pair of SIMD(not a single SIMD). In the center are 2 vector ALUs, surrounded by 2x64KB of register. Each SIMD which consist of vector ALU surrounded by 64KB of registers in all GCN based architecture regardless if its ps4/XO/PC.

    According to this AMD article all GCN Compute units have SIMD with 64KB register.
    http://developer.amd.com/wordpress/media/2013/06/2620_final.pdf reference page 18, 10, 30, etc

    Here is what I assume is an accurate the breakdown of the CU architecture.
    [​IMG]

    so to summarize all GCN based gpu's have simd with 64KB vector registers, not just xbox. And in further summarization misterxmedia leadership are trolling/lying to their followers again?
     
    #10 Pixel, Apr 22, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 22, 2014
  11. Lalaland

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    You can't be accused of trolling somebody if they've asked you to lie to them....

    Seriously though I think everyone who reads that site and takes it more seriously than the daily horoscope is so far down the rabbit hole of self delusion they're beyond help. I mean this is a site still discussing Mono/Stereo drivers, 'stacked' GPUs (from what appears to be a fundamental misunderstanding of how chip fabrication works), 5-6TF performance (the math on this one must be seen to be believed) and a whole passel of other BS as 'proven'. I drop by only on bad days when I need a smile and it always delivers, cheaper than psychotherapy!
     
  12. Thowllly

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    The reason the register files looks different is because they are rotated compared to each other. If you look at screenshots of the xb1 and ps4 dies the CUs looks like they are oriented the same way but they are really not.

    Rotate one of the die shots and you'll see how they really relate to each other. After the rotation you'll see that the CPUs and the srams are aligned the same way (determined by the alignment of the transistors of the process they're manufactured on), while the CUs are oriented differently.

    So the CUs of the two dies have different orientation compared to the transistors and sram cells and that is why they look slightly different. But this is only a difference in layout and suggest nothing at all about there being any actual real differences between the CUs.
     
  13. Shortbread

    Shortbread Island Hopper
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    You stay Mr!!!

    I want the rumors of a new PS4 Syphon Filter to be true... :mrgreen:
     
  14. tunafish

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    Also, what level is the die shot from? These kind of shots are typically taken from partially fabricated chips, and you can choose the level pretty much arbitrarily from anything between the base transistor layer and the top wire layer. Each level will look a little different.
     
  15. tunafish

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    No, they are not. There is a difference between a register bank (directly addressed) vs a cache block (typically using some kind of associative addressing scheme, and because of this it needs tags).
     
  16. BoardBonobo

    BoardBonobo My hat is white!
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    It's like a Religion for the followers of mrx. Belief without question on everything without real proof for any of it.
     
  17. Pixel

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    haha, very true very true, even imaginary info can be an effective tool in "the console wars"

    Its a photo from the chipworks.com transistor layer shot.
     
    #17 Pixel, Apr 22, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 22, 2014
  18. pjbliverpool

    pjbliverpool B3D Scallywag
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    Yep I had the same thought. I get a lot of creationist and other cuckoo religion vibes from that site. I've never been before but thought I'd take a look out of curiosity. I had no idea of the level of self dellusion going on over there.
     
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