Sony only allows gimped MOD Support on Playstation games (Bethesda FallOut4 and Skyrim Remaster)

Discussion in 'Console Industry' started by RobertR1, Sep 10, 2016.

  1. RobertR1

    RobertR1 Pro
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  2. Rikimaru

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    Bethesda problems we knew about came from their PC development background.
    PS4 could play a number of sound formats. Just not proprietary mp3 and xma. You can always make a software decoder for any format. Audio middleware supports a bunch too.
    PC textures is an Xbox format too I assume. You can always make texture loader yourself.
    Storage limit is the only I see comes from Sony side.

    Do mods can load shaders?
    Xbox 360 and 3DS security was broken with a help of GPU.
     
  3. Arwin

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    Different feature set is there: 4K support. The Pro is aimed at those people who bought a beautiful new 4K TV first (all new TV purchases are now basically 4K, Full HD tvs are dying off rapidly! Just walk into any store ...) and will then want to get a 4K capable console.
     
  4. Silent_Buddha

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    Sound formats used by mod authors are standard and not proprietary.
    Texture formats used by mod authors are standard and not proprietary.

    Regards,
    SB
     
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  5. DSoup

    DSoup meh
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    .WAV is proprietary to Microsoft and CreationKit wants you to use WAV. There are ways to other other sound formats but they require a lot of work which is why almost no nods use anything other than WAV.
     
  6. bgroovy

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    The PS4 requires proprietary formats so the sticking point is how mod assets got converted. If Bethesda didn't want to do the work to convert them and Sony refused to release the tools publically so modders could port their assets themselves we'd get an impasse like this.
     
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  7. Silent_Buddha

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    I'm not sure how it's proprietary when even Apple is able to use the format.

    It is true that it is a standard developed by Microsoft and IBM, however. AFAIK, there are no licensing fee's or licensing requirements required for its use.

    Regards,
    SB
     
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  8. Silent_Buddha

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    Yes, that's what's happening. I was just pointing out that Rikimaru was incorrect in attempting ot shift the blame elsewhere.

    Regards,
    SB
     
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  9. Rikimaru

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    The key for my post is: you can always make a decoder or optimal transcoder yourself. Or work with open standards.
    "PC textures are used. Memory and performance issues may occur." means they probably decode texture in memory and work with uncompressed.
    DXT format should be licensed. You could see why Sony would not want to do it and use other open formats. But it is popular on PC.
     
  10. Silent_Buddha

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    You can't if Sony prevents you from doing so. They'll work with developers to get things working. As long it works their way. They aren't going to go so far as to facilitate mod authors getting mods working on their system. And they are unwilling to work with Bethesda to facilitate that.

    Likely, because there's no profit involved for them in doing so because mods aren't monetized. So basically Fallout 4 gamers on PS4 get shafted by Sony.

    It isn't about using "open formats." Sony has a problem with mods in Fallout 4 because they aren't using formats that are proprietary to Sony.

    Regards,
    SB
     
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  11. Rikimaru

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    Or Bethesda is using proprietary formats where it can use open ones for all platforms.
     
  12. DSoup

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    It's proprietary in that it's not an open body standard, nor is it natively supported on iOS or OSX although QuickTime includes a .WAV codec. So for the audio side, Sony would have to implement the different encoding formats used by WAV to every PS4. I'm disappointed, but not surprised that Sony couldn't be arsed to do this. Not4daPlayaZ(tm).

    But it's not as though Bethesda would not have known the PS4 did not support WAV when they doggedly decided the mod standard that must support consoles would use WAV. Well probably not, it is Bethesda. :mrgreen:
     
  13. Shifty Geezer

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    .WAV's just an uncompressed binary container though. Should be trivial to support it.
     
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  14. Silent_Buddha

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    There is no encoding format for .wav. It's just a container, generally for uncompressed audio as ACM isn't generally used. Because it's typically used for uncompressed audio it isn't a popular sound format for mods, hence why most mods use .mp3 or .ogg files.

    Looking at the thread on the Bethesda forums, there's a lot of people unhappy with Sony and stating that they are no longer going to be buying the PS4 version of the Skyrim remaster.

    It's a shame because Bethesda has had mod support up and running for PS4 for a few months now. They were only waiting on approval from Sony to enable it on PS4. Also sad because many mod authors have already made mods that would work on PS4.

    BTW - the uncompressed format used is the same used by Audio CDs (LPCM). The vast majority of .wav files are this.

    Regards,
    SB
     
    #14 Silent_Buddha, Sep 10, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2016
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  15. DSoup

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    WAV is more complicated that that, a .WAV container may include LCPM, ยต-Law, A-Law, DPCL, ADCPM or even BFW1 or BFW2 streams. That's why .WAV is an actual format with a header describing the contents. To meaningly support WAV you have to support everything apart from BWF1/BWF2 which are only for broadcast.

    WAV isn't always the lowest common denominator, i.e. PCM 44.1KHz 16bit. You definitely cant assume that with mods because you have no idea what the mod creator used. If the mod contains a ton of audio it's more likely to have compressed audio streams. Bit which?
     
  16. Shifty Geezer

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    Mods are almost certainly going to use WAV only for primitive raw audio data - all the authoring tools that save to WAV use it as a PCM format, nothing fancy. Worst case, tell your modders to only use 16 bit 44kHz audio in WAVs! But on the whole I expect compressed audio (.ogg, .mps) to be used which is what SB says above.
     
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  17. Silent_Buddha

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    As well, whatever the case may be, Bethesda has user created mods working on PS4. It's just that Sony will not approve the use of mods in FO4, for whatever reason.

    If they never had the intention of allowing it, they should have told that to Bethesda months ago. But that could have convinced some people to get a XBO for console mod support in FO4. Seems at least somewhat likely as there are many users in the Bethesda forums that are claiming they would have gotten an XBO for FO4 if they had known that mods were never coming to PS4.

    Regards,
    SB
     
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  18. DSoup

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    Spoken like somebody who has never used CreationKit or modded a Bethesda game :yes: Unfortunately the audio system is built around WAV and if you use complex encoded audio (e.g. MP3) you lose flexibility. This isn't some obscure issue; modders are familiar with the limitations of Bethesda's engine.

    The only surprise is Bethesda didn't see it coming on PS4. Perhaps they really did think they could persuade Sony to support WAV, and maybe if audio was the only sticking point Sony would have considered but it looks like a bunch of sticking points on Sony's side.
     
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  19. Shifty Geezer

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    I wouldn't go the 'Sony lied' route without evidence. There can be lots of reasons a collaboration fails, rarely including the 'they were only stringing us along for selfish ends' one. Could simply be a case of a change of executive for all we know. It's also worth noting that Sony has been by far and away the more open platform company, allowing cross-platform play, F2P MMOs, and modding on PS3. This is certainly a confusing backwards step, but it's unlikely to be as a result of a personality change such that 'open Sony' has become 'deceitful closed Sony'.
     
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  20. Shifty Geezer

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    :yep2:
     
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