Skewed graphs in 3d graphics industry

Discussion in 'Other' started by Mendel, Nov 11, 2007.

  1. Putas

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    True. You get that from bars+axis.
     
  2. Mendel

    Mendel Mr. Upgrade
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    If, and only if you disregard the axis, the bars hold no information alone, agree?

    Is there any particular reason you avoid directly answering my questions in general?
     
  3. Putas

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    Agree.
    I did not answer since you were working with wrong premise.
    So it would be something silly like 1) no 2) why not - it is not - nothing
     
  4. Mendel

    Mendel Mr. Upgrade
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    Thanks! It is my opinion that in such graph, bars alone should give a graphical representation of differences amongst the products that are being compared.

    So if you look at the third and fourth picture of my original post, you could further skew the bars into oblivion and at no point it would be too skewed, not ridiculous in the slightest?



    IMO it is okay to highlight differences, if you do include the starting point of the graph and then imply discontinuity in the graph if you want to cut "irrelevant" parts of it off. ( for layout purposes for example.)
    This stuff is teached in high school math class, it's very well thought out, there are standards in how you make a graph for comparing things if you want to be informative. I expect to be treated as a person who wants information. I don't expect to be expected to use photoshop to make the graphs make sense to me :)
     
  5. Putas

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    Yes, it would be ridiculous and ugly. More so since you excluded negative results. But similar reasons led to skewing- having results only in range of 90-120% why not crop it? It is not a big deal to add axis description, you should check for it everytime anyway. You cannot get rid of it with everytime. Do you have to imply discontinuity? I say no, not necessary, this is no exact science or engineering with its standards described in fat books. Just don't forgot they won't teach you everything in school and think for yourself- you will do fine without photoshop.
     
  6. neliz

    neliz GIGABYTE Man
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    the thing is that with cropping (which I agree, should be applied by default on most statistics.. that's the way I learned it) comes the loss of scale. That scale is the reason everyone talks about skewed graphs, simply because the scale of the original graph is gone.
    Even if the axis are clearly labeled graphics are easier (and universal) to imprint the (now un-proportionally) big difference between 20 and 22 f/s.

    that's why these graphs should scale properly. i.e. with fixed values for x and y (yes. graphs will become big comparing 200 f/s to 20 f/s) or scaling the graph so that the largest value is 100% and all the other results are scaled proportionally.
     
  7. Putas

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    I still don't see a reason why graphs showed here should be called improperly scaled.
    Your proposition would make comparsion between products harder.
     
  8. Mendel

    Mendel Mr. Upgrade
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    It's just the effect these graphs have when you first take a glance at them. It's this "Hey, that looks like a great improvement, no wait a minute..." factor that kind of offends people.

    I don't think there's any problem layout wise using full scale graphs if one does them properly.

    If we had a poll about which is better ( or preferred, more informative): the first graph of the first post or the version edited by me (given it some tweaks to make it not look like mspaint job) ... I'd bet good amounts of money that the edited version would be voted winner hands down!

    Why? Because the starting point of the original graph is indicative of nothing (as even Putas admitted) whereas the meaning of starting point of full scale graph is self evident.
     
  9. Mendel

    Mendel Mr. Upgrade
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    Because they don't fit the expectations of the viewers.
     
  10. Putas

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    I admitted under condition of missing description.
    Your personal expectation does not set standard for other viewers.
     
  11. AlphaWolf

    AlphaWolf Specious Misanthrope
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    You seem to be the only one with a dissenting opinion, it might be more accurate to say its your expectation that does not set a standard for other viewers.
     
  12. neliz

    neliz GIGABYTE Man
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    hear hear, someone should run a poll and display the results in a non-skewed scale...

    c'mon guys.. Putas is just trolling around..
     
  13. Geo

    Geo Mostly Harmless
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    With a name like "Putas"? Say it ain't so.
     
  14. neliz

    neliz GIGABYTE Man
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    geh geh geh...
     
  15. Putas

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    don't blame me for spanish language please

    I am sorry for spoiling your trolling on innocent graph.
     
  16. Mendel

    Mendel Mr. Upgrade
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    Fair enough, let's run a poll on the matter.
     
    #76 Mendel, Nov 28, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 28, 2007
  17. Putas

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    Might be interesting. But mind you one more time- since the graph is not intended for people of the b3d kind, results are irrelevant to our debate.
     
  18. Mendel

    Mendel Mr. Upgrade
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    Interesting opinion.

    I tend to think as follows: If a graph comparing graphics cards is openly shown and released in the internet, it's intended for anyone interested in such content.

    edit: Besides, come on, it's a graph comparing high end 3d graphics adapters. If this forum is not target audience for such matters, what is? Who is the graph intended for? And why not to us?
     
    #78 Mendel, Nov 28, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 28, 2007
  19. neliz

    neliz GIGABYTE Man
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    He would then say it's for the marketeers and resellers as an extra tool to sell their product (the one with the much larger bar.)

    Why would you buy a Chevy? this Ford performs *so* much better.
     
  20. Putas

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    Almost there. Just don't be so obsessed with evil marketing.
     
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