Since the Nv30 Pic thread is closed...

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Doomtrooper

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I never had a chance to post this but I'd like to know who at Nvidia is claiming to Ben these were rendered on a Nv30..unless the Nv30 was rendering in Nov .14 2001, we have a problem here.

They were proven to be done on Exlunas web page..checking the webpage on dates of the uploading is Nov 14, 2001. , Jan 31 , 2002

http://www.exluna.com/products/gallery/

Don't spam the thread, just posting facts... the artists were

Images rendered using Exluna's first commercial product, the Entropyâ„¢ rendering system.

The Bike

Artist: Don Kim
Software: Maya, MayaMan, Entropy

Pencils

Artist: Rudy Poat
Software: BMRT

Bowls

Artist: Goran Kocov
Software: BMRT
 
It is my impression, they were originally created by Exluna, but then maybe redone(using Cg?) to be ran on NV30, much like the ATi crystal ball demo.
 
Correct me if I am wrong... but its obvious that the pics were rendered by Exluna quite some time ago... now is it not possible that Nvidia have used those examples and re-created them to show what the NV30 can do in real time?

After all, they do own Exluna... so why not use thier previous work for demonstration purposes?

A bit OT,

Any one here used to frequent the 3dfx news groups? I am sure I can remember seeing the name John Reynolds there, right? Also the Rev as well. Any of you guys remember a character going by the name Greg S. Truow (sp?) that used to frequent those forums? What happened to that bloke?
 
Not a big stretch of the imagination to believe that these pics were rendered on an NV30 since nVIDIA now owns Exluna. I'm sure they would have access to them.

In any case I'm sure that the NV30 could render any of the ATI pics circulating as much as the R300 can probably render any of the NV30 pics.

From the looks of the pics coming out of each camp DX9 is going to be sweet!!!
 
me thinks CineFX and CG, perhaps being rendered by pixel shader programs rather then texture maps

who knows if it was directly rendered on nv30 hardware or not though, but one would assume so, if that's NVIDIA's intention to show that they can render this stuff in realtime on the nv30...
 
Doom, does it really matter? I'm an Ati fan myself, but is this really that important? Man, it seems as though the fanATIcs are just as bad as the Nvidiots. Always having to pick apart every little thing about the competition. Who cares if these were really rendered on an Nv30 or not. If they weren't what does it mean? Nothing. Cause I'm sure they will be able to render it eventually anyway. Any dx9 card will be able to. The beauty of dx9. It's amazing how far dx has come. I'm sure you're probably aware that you can find pictures of the crystal ball demo that Ati ran on this website:

http://www.debevec.org/

The pictures of it rendered were up long before Ati ever made a demo of it. You don't see people denying that Ati actually ran this demo do you?

Being an Ati fan myself, I really think you need to lay off a bit. Does your whole world revolve around the Ati vs. Nvidia debate? They're video cards for crying out loud. Some of you people argue about these things worse than people argue about religion. "my god's better than your god, so you're going to hell." Please, quit making the rest of us fans look bad. It's actually quite embarrassing.
 
LittlePenny said:
It is my impression, they were originally created by Exluna, but then maybe redone(using Cg?) to be ran on NV30, much like the ATi crystal ball demo.
Click to expand...

Doomtrooper and Hellbinder make me feel like I wasted my time with that last post in the other thread. Perhaps a brief and short explanation of the obvious like this is what is necessary to get the point across. :-?
 
All I have to say is that if the Ducati can actually be rendered on the NV30 in anything like realtime, that would be impressive. It's not nearly as photorealistic as some of the other pics, but the polygon count must be insane on that model.

BTW, has anyone taken the time to compare the exluna shots and the newer ones posted by ben and do a bit comparison to see if they are in fact the original off-line software renders or something newer?
 
jjayb, people saw the crystal ball demo AND the hardware used in action, whereas these nV pics are just that, pics.

That said, the pics are nice, and if they can be rendered in real-time, I'll be impressed. But I'm not really concerned with anything but benchmarks/how the card will run games. Heck, I just tried MOH:AA for the first time today on an Alienware system at Best Buy. I couldn't believe I was hitting 10fps using a 4400 at 1280x1024 (didn't check the CPU), but even dropping down to 1152x864 and cutting back on some advanced options still slowed down noticably in certain situations. True, the game is supposed to be poorly coded, but I wasn't expecting single digits on top-shelf hardware. There's certainly room for R300 and NV30.
 
jjayb said:
Doom, does it really matter? I'm an Ati fan myself, but is this really that important? Man, it seems as though the fanATIcs are just as bad as the Nvidiots. Always having to pick apart every little thing about the competition. Who cares if these were really rendered on an Nv30 or not. If they weren't what does it mean? Nothing. Cause I'm sure they will be able to render it eventually anyway. Any dx9 card will be able to. The beauty of dx9. It's amazing how far dx has come. I'm sure you're probably aware that you can find pictures of the crystal ball demo that Ati ran on this website:

http://www.debevec.org/

The pictures of it rendered were up long before Ati ever made a demo of it. You don't see people denying that Ati actually ran this demo do you?

Being an Ati fan myself, I really think you need to lay off a bit. Does your whole world revolve around the Ati vs. Nvidia debate? They're video cards for crying out loud. Some of you people argue about these things worse than people argue about religion. "my god's better than your god, so you're going to hell." Please, quit making the rest of us fans look bad. It's actually quite embarrassing.
Click to expand...

I posted some simple truths here..is that so bad. If you don't like it don't read it.. I said don't spam the thread..so don't.
The original pictures were not rendered on a NV30 and provided the dates to prove it, that is all I stated.
If you don't like reading the truth head over to Hardocp.
 
I don't mind the truth at all. Truth can sometimes be subjective though. Just get tired of every thread I read has you arguing with someone over who has the bigger dick. Just gets a little old. The other thread was locked for a reason. But I guess that doesn't matter to you. You've still got arguments to make. So what the heck, lets restart the pissing match in a different thread. I've been lurking hear for some time now, posting only occasionally. What I used to like about beyond3d was that it was different from rage3d and Nvnews. Not so much garbage. But lately it has invaded here as well. Not meaning to single you out, as there are others who do the same. Both from the Ati side and the Nvidia side. The Nvidiot vs. FanATIc stuff would be better left at the above mentioned sites. I'm all for it and occasionally participate in the silly, heated discussions there as well. I always just thought this place was above all that. I guess no place is sacred anymore. And frankly, I think Hardocp is more along the lines of your type of place. You can argue till you're blue in the face over there and it's all the norm, and the people are less knowledgeable too. You won't look as foolish as you do here, trying to argue with intelligent people.
 
Doomtrooper said:
I posted some simple truths here..is that so bad. If you don't like it don't read it.. I said don't spam the thread..so don't.
The original pictures were not rendered on a NV30 and provided the dates to prove it, that is all I stated.
If you don't like reading the truth head over to Hardocp.
Click to expand...

i'm sorry, i don't usually push in continuing arguments and the like in threads, but i just had post my opinion here and express my feelings toward that statement, IMO that's a real low blow there :(

again, sorry for posting off topic, but i just had to speak up on that one
 
Does your whole world revolve around the Ati vs. Nvidia debate?
Click to expand...

What ever gave you that impression? Ya think?

On the topic @ hand, if Ben was informed that the originally stated images were done in some way/shape/form w/ an NV30, I'll take that @ face value. Despite what _some_ might believe, these guys aren't realted to Satan.
 
Fuz said:
A bit OT,
Any one here used to frequent the 3dfx news groups? I am sure I can remember seeing the name John Reynolds there, right? Also the Rev as well. Any of you guys remember a character going by the name Greg S. Truow (sp?) that used to frequent those forums? What happened to that bloke?
Click to expand...

That was a very good place to be a few years back, i remember a few of these guys from the 3dfx groups.
I still have a .txt file with a few Truow-ism's it on a disc somewhere..

:D
 
jjayb said:
I don't mind the truth at all. Truth can sometimes be subjective though. Just get tired of every thread I read has you arguing with someone over who has the bigger dick. Just gets a little old. The other thread was locked for a reason. But I guess that doesn't matter to you. You've still got arguments to make. So what the heck, lets restart the pissing match in a different thread. I've been lurking hear for some time now, posting only occasionally. What I used to like about beyond3d was that it was different from rage3d and Nvnews. Not so much garbage. But lately it has invaded here as well. Not meaning to single you out, as there are others who do the same. Both from the Ati side and the Nvidia side. The Nvidiot vs. FanATIc stuff would be better left at the above mentioned sites. I'm all for it and occasionally participate in the silly, heated discussions there as well. I always just thought this place was above all that. I guess no place is sacred anymore. And frankly, I think Hardocp is more along the lines of your type of place. You can argue till you're blue in the face over there and it's all the norm, and the people are less knowledgeable too. You won't look as foolish as you do here, trying to argue with intelligent people.
Click to expand...

I've been a member of Beyond3D for many years...don't tell me where I can post dig !

I see nothing silly about this thread, only to people that think possible misleading information is OK.
 
Hi there,
Doomtrooper said:
I see nothing silly about this thread, only to people that think possible misleading information is OK.
Click to expand...
Am I the only one here who sees this as a slightly ironic statement, in the light of the original post starting this thread?

on-topic:

Of course you'd want to re-run already existing CGI artwork on a graphics chipset. That's the whole point of those "cinematic effects" GPUs/VPUs. Both ATi and NV need to make sure people believe that what had been previously only been possible with software rendering can now run hardware-accellerated. best way to do that is a 1:1 comparison.

I would be disappointed if neither ATi nor NV used original artwork for their demos. After all, that's what I'm interested in: how will the hardware cope, directly compared with CGI renders? Both companies claim that they can run RenderMan shaders on hardware, now. Why not use such artwork, then, as proof of concept? it's certainly less time consuming to just adopt and re-run already existing scenes and animations (ExLuna shots, ATi's Balls demo) than to make new ones from scratch. That's another claim of both ATi and NV--to make such a conversion of existing (RenderMan) scenes easy and quick.

ta,
-Sascha.rb
 
I'll be the first to admit that the credibility of a few people on these boards have been tarnished lately with vitriolic arguments for and against a particular brand of cards (and I think there's a few people firmly entrenched on both sides of the arguments).

I think on this occasion you are being a little harsh towards Doom.

Why you would, I dunno, but take it from me that the images presented as 'NV30 screenshots' are nothing more than scaled version of the images found on the Exluna site. Why? Well, the images are pixel-perfect versions of the originals (within the constraints of reason 2 below). I would expect even the NV30 would produce some differences in texturing or shading. People keep citing the ATI natural light demo as some kind of confirmation of the validity of these images, but the ATI demo IS NOT identical to the original offline version and I don't think it ever could be. Neither is the Animusic demo.

Secondly, and most importantly, if anyone had bothered to check the pixel dimensions of these 'NV30' images, you would have noticed that they are 400 x 300 pixels in size. Now, download the originals from the Exluna site and whip 'em into Photoshop. Go to the Image Size dialog and look at the size - the bike is 700 x 525, the marker 640 x 480 and the teapot thingie 800 x 600. Now with constrain proportions checked, enter 400 in the width box and you see that the proportionally scaled images are, you guessed it, 400 x 300.

Prett co-incidental, huh?

Sure, non of this evidence is concrete and just lately I don't think some people would have their opinions changed if David Kirk posted saying that the images were fake, "Of course, that's exactly what he would say if they wanted to keep the specs. secret." :)

At best I would say that these images should be taken as examples of what the NV30 *might* be capable of, nothing else.
 
Hi cellarboy,

I think you might have missed the point of my posting, and of other posts in this thread. I was not complaining about somebody doubting the origin of said shots per se. _I_ doubt that the NV30 has rendered these specific images.

I just don't like the argument "said pictures have been around for a long time already" and think it is exceedingly flawed and short-sighted. Sorry if I wasn't clear about that.

YOUR arguments, on the other hand side, are perfectly valid. ;)

ta,
-.rb
 
cellarboy's comments were precisely what I was asking. Many people suspect that the original images from exluna's site are "exactly" the same as the ones ben posted, other than obvious scaling. I'm too lazy to do the comparison, and just wondered if anyone else had.

I'm sure that these are the original exluna pics, rendered off-line in software, having absolutely nothing to do with the NV30 other than what NV possibly has planned to use as demo material. Anyone getting worked up over these images actually being rendered on the NV30 is just a bit premature.
 
Bigus Dickus said:
cellarboy's comments were precisely what I was asking. Many people suspect that the original images from exluna's site are "exactly" the same as the ones ben posted, other than obvious scaling. I'm too lazy to do the comparison, and just wondered if anyone else had.

I'm sure that these are the original exluna pics, rendered off-line in software, having absolutely nothing to do with the NV30 other than what NV possibly has planned to use as demo material. Anyone getting worked up over these images actually being rendered on the NV30 is just a bit premature.
Click to expand...

I just dont remember anyone on this board getting really "worked up" other than Doomtrooper :(

edit: er, I mean snap
 
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