Samsungs new Soc, but who's supplying the Graphics ?

Discussion in 'Mobile Devices and SoCs' started by tangey, Apr 23, 2008.

  1. tangey

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    Just noticed that on samsungs S3C6410, somewhere between the Advanced spec of '07
    http://www.samsung.com/global/syste...product/2008/4/23/370911ptb_s3c6410_rev20.pdf

    And the production spec of sometime in 2008
    http://www.samsung.com/global/busin...nloads/systemlsi/s3c6410_datasheet_200804.pdf

    The graphics performance reduced from 9.3M tri/sec to 4M.

    Perhaps they decided they couldn't live with the power requirements of the original 133Mhz clocked graphics and halved the clock (the GPU clock isn't specified in the later info)
     
    #21 tangey, Jun 23, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 23, 2009
  2. tangey

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    Samsung this week announce two new 1Ghz, 45nm A8 based Socs. S5PC110 and the S5PV210. THe following article is stating that both of them contain SGX graphics.

    http://www.eeherald.com/section/new-products/np10010387.html

    Its the only article I've seen to do so, others, including Samsungs own PR do not speciy the 3D IP supplier.


    Update....Its now on Samsungs Website:-
    http://www.samsung.com/global/business/semiconductor/newsView.do?news_id=1043

    So thats another instance of SGX appearing in samples at 45nm before year end.
    PR also talks about 30fps encode/decode, I wonder is that Samsungs own solution ?
     
    #22 tangey, Sep 30, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 30, 2009
  3. kumayu

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    Samsung Electronics FIMG-3DSE v1.5
    It's a Samsung's inhouse GPU in S3C6410.
    They also has a 2D core, "FIMG-2D".

    FIMG-3DSE v1.5
    one 128bit VS unit+ one 128bit PS unit , 133Mhz.
    (32bit x 4)
    The performances seems equal or better to PowerVR MBX .
    But base on OpenGL ES2.0.
     
    #23 kumayu, Oct 19, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 20, 2009
  4. Lazy8s

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    That's interesting to know.

    Though it's a short-lived architecture, learning more about what they tried there would be nice. Like with the Zii and darkblu's testing, we're sometimes fortunate enough to get a real look at the performance/operation of a few non-mainstream solutions that pop up now and then.
     
  5. tangey

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    This article extract gives us a little bit more info on the two 1Ghz processors that samsung announced with SGX........

    Continuing its transformation from a low-cost vendor to a high-performance supplier, Samsung has rolled out a pair of new application processors, each containing a 1GHz Cortex-A8 CPU. The S5PC110 targets smartphones, whereas the S5PV210 is designed for netbooks. The chips follow the 65nm S5PC100, a custom version of which powers the iPhone 3GS. The new 45nm processors are due to sample in December.

    Samsung worked with Intrinsity to develop a custom implementation of the Cortex-A8 CPU. Although the 1GHz CPU is no faster than the Cortex-A8 used in TI's 45nm OMAP3, Intrinsity touts that its design achieves this speed while operating at just 1.0V, minimizing power consumption. Neither TI nor Samsung has disclosed power data, however, so the extent of any power savings is unclear.

    The PC110 also extends the multimedia performance of its predecessor, quadrupling the 3D performance to 40 million triangles per second and adding full HD (1080p) video encoding and decoding. To better position the processor for netbooks, Samsung created the PV210 version, which uses a less expensive (0.65mm pitch) package and adds a second 32-bit DDR2 SDRAM channel to boost software performance.

    http://blog.linleygroup.com/2009/10/samsung-pushes-cortex-a8-to-1ghz.html


    40M tri per sec....does this make it SGX530/535 ?
     
  6. Wishmaster

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    No AFAIK it is based on samsung's own in-house GPU. Their using their own GPU's even now in Omnia 2 and Omnia Pro.
     
  7. tangey

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  8. darkblu

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    so this is known for a fact now, or is that just speculation?
     
  9. Wishmaster

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    My bad. Thought that if they use in-house developed GPU on omnia 2 their new SoC would use it too but it seems that they went for 535 or 540 but I'm more inclined to 540.
     
    #29 Wishmaster, Oct 21, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 21, 2009
  10. Arun

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    I'd guess 540 too (both would fit the poly performance) because PowerVR claimed multiple partners were taping-out with it quite some time ago and so far we've only seen TI and NXP iirc. Plus, 540 is just a better arch if you don't need the extra PC-centric features of the 535 (and didn't need to design your SoC before the 540 was ready, I suppose).
     
  11. tangey

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    Does Microsoft have any thoughts of producing an ARM version of Windows 7 ? Samsung is aiming one of those chips at netbooks, if there is an ARM windows 7 in the wings then perhaps having a DX9/10 compliant core would make sense (i.e. 535 ?)
     
  12. Wishmaster

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    I don't think they will make ARM version of Windows 7, not now.
    Remember that they plan to release WM7 next year which is designed for ARM architecture and they wouldn't want to kill it with ARM port of W7.
    Eldar Murtazin stated that for now they plan to focus on getting WM7 to market but then they plan to make Windows more suitable for mobile devices but this will happen somewhere around 2012 so we still got some time.
    Link to the article. Pay attention to the second paragraph.
     
  13. Lazy8s

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    Both the smartphone and netbook SoC are likely to be using the same SGX core, which raises some questions about its identity considering the performance numbers stated.

    Is the core clocked over 200 MHz? A 540 would need to be nearer 300 MHz in order to push around 40M tri/sec based upon Imgtec's performance guidance, unless Samsung is just quoting more of a peak guidance.

    Perhaps the core in question is actually a 545, where the DirectX 10.1 functionality might have at least some usefulness to a netbook, though probably a very limited amount considering it's in an ARM design.
     
  14. A.L.M.

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    Very interesting thread, I was asking myself the same question...


    Anyway, more detailed specs for the Samsung inhouse mobile gpu. :wink:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    FEATURES

    • 4M triangles/s @133MHz (Transform Only)

    • 75.8M pixels/s fill-rates @133MHz (shaded pixels)

    • Programmable Shader Model 3.0 support

    • 128-bit (32-bit x 4) Floating-point Vertex Shader

    - Geometry-texture cache support

    • 128-bit (32-bit x 4) Floating-point two Fragment Shaders

    • Max. 4K x 4K frame-buffer (16/32-bpp)

    • 32-bit depth buffer (8-bit stencil/24-bit Z)

    • Texture format: 1/2/4/8/16/32-bpp RGB, YUV 422, S3TC Compressed

    • Support max. 8 surfaces (max. 8 user-defined textures)

    • API Support: OpenGL ES 1.1 & 2.0, D3D Mobile

    • Intelligent Host Interface

    - 15 input data-types, Vertex Buffer & Vertex Cache

    • H/W Clipping (Near & Far)

    • 8-stage five-threaded Shader architecture

    • Primitive assembly & hard-wired triangle setup engine

    • One pixels/cycle hard-wired rasterizer

    • One texturing engine (one bilinear-filtered texel/cycle each)

    - Nearest/bilinear/trilinear filtering

    - 8-layered multi-texturing support

    • Fragment processing: Alpha/Stencil/Z/Dither/Mask/ROP

    • Memory bandwidth optimization through hierarchical caching

    - L1/L2 Texture-caches, Z/Color caches

    • System bus interface

    - Host interface: 32-bit AHB (AMBA 2.0)

    - Memory Interface: two 64-bit AXI (AMBA 3.0) channels
     
  15. darkblu

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    this reads quite strangely, assuming that:
    * they quote tristrips as triagles (1 vertex/tri), like everybody else in the industry
    * the quoted 4-wide vector support is actually true

    assuming VS work in a pipeline with the trisetup (i.e. VS and trisetup work in parallel), and assuming the trisetup is not the bottleneck (4M/s sounds way too low for a 133MHz trisetup engine anyway), that leaves us with the 133 / 4 = 33 clocks/vertex shader performance as the bottleneck.

    now, a matrix/vertex multiply is 4x dp4, or 4x madd (ok, 3x madd + 1x mul) + some swizzles. that gives us either 8 clocks/dp4, or 8 clocks/madd+swizzle. i'd guess the latter. and those seem like some darn expensive swizzles to me.
     
  16. tangey

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    Regarding samsungs 45nm A8 Socs with SGX graphics, Anandtech seems to be confirming what was conjectured here a view months ago, that those Socs use the 540 variant of SGX.

    "I met with Imagination Technologies, the makers of the GPU in everything from the iPhone 3GS to the Motorola Droid. They were showing off a 1.1GHz Samsung Cortex A8 SoC with an integrated PowerVR SGX 540:"
    http://www.anandtech.com/tradeshows/showdoc.aspx?i=3719&p=2

    CPU is now clocked at 1.2Ghz.

    We know from IMG press releases that Samsung has licenced two SGX cores, the 2nd one being announced in Oct '08. So is the other one the 535 implementation in Apples Soc, if not I wonder where the other SGX licence will show up
     
  17. Ailuros

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    Either Samsung's own devices or a next generation iPhone just to piss the Tegra2 fans off *snicker*
     
  18. roninja

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    Samsung have held two types of SGX licenses firstly a production license on behalf of Apple and more recently a license allowing it to be embedded into it's own cores. I would concur that this is a 540 license and Anand appears to be confirming this. We shall see if a varient lands in the next iPhone unless apple go fully down the pa semi route. Samsung will certainly find use for more of it's own SoC's in it's own smartphones overtime with less reliance on the likes of TI Omap family.
     
  19. Lazy8s

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    With such a high clock rate for the CPU, the SGX should comfortably clear above 200 MHz, a speed which would allow a 540 to approach Samsung's announced performance of 40M tris/sec.
     
    #39 Lazy8s, Jan 11, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 11, 2010
  20. Ailuros

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    IMG's listed triangle rates are as realistic as possible. After they've seen it with the first generation they don't have much reason to doubt them nowadays.

    http://www.imgtec.com/News/Release/index.asp?NewsID=497
     
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