Star Citizen, Roberts Space Industries - Chris Roberts' life support and retirement fund [2012-]

[Billy Idol]

Does this really excite you guys?

I was bored after 5min watching him running around in a lifeless corridor with basically nothing.

Is this really what you want? Realism to the point it gets boring?

 

[cheapchips]

I watched the SQ42 presentation mostly on fast forward. Liked the bit with the derelict ship. It felt like that showed at least some of the potential of having spaceships+ambulation with high quality graphics.

Everything else would have benefited from editing. The trip down to the planet really didn't need to to ground level miles away from the landing zone, unless their tech can't deal with an approach to detailed areas from orbit. The bit at the start really didn't need to show all the space corridors.

 

[Jupiter]

Does this really excite you guys?

I was bored after 5min watching him running around in a lifeless corridor with basically nothing.

Is this really what you want? Realism to the point it gets boring?

You seem to like something like COD. But not me. I want it exactly as it is. There are hundreds of fast paced games like this one:

There was 99% gameplay in the presentation. The player could have easily run through the whole presentation in a fraction of the time, tackled the flight and the exploration in a different way but of course they did it to showcase everything without hurry. Each cutscene is optional. For example he could just go his normal way or watch Hamill changing his clothing in the scene with the prisoners.

I watched the SQ42 presentation mostly on fast forward. Liked the bit with the derelict ship. It felt like that showed at least some of the potential of having spaceships+ambulation with high quality graphics.

Everything else would have benefited from editing. The trip down to the planet really didn't need to to ground level miles away from the landing zone, unless their tech can't deal with an approach to detailed areas from orbit. The bit at the start really didn't need to show all the space corridors.

Probably the Player will have to examine empty capital ships. This is going to be scary because already in the PU it is funny to be alone in larger ships. There are aliens too.

Why? Roberts wants to present a living universe. Gamers who want fast games can get COD instead. The player can move freely on the ship and this can even be attacked while he is running around..

He had to go down earlier because there is anti-aircraft. But that was not well communicated in the video which the developers said themselves in the Directors Commentary. Of course he would have been able to fight with this anti-aircraft too. That's up to the player.

Actually, the bridges on The Expanse, which I otherwise love, make me quiet annoyed. They're far too spacious.

Guess that's a TV production trade off. Having to take walls out for cameras and also deal with zerog wirework is probably asking too much within the time constraints.

I'm not sure the 'flying VR bunker' approach would be very interesting in a game. It'd end up looking like Dreadnaught or Elite's turret mode?

Like to see someone try out some ideas though.

There are some good points in there. CIG could theoretically use the their Render to Texture tech (seen in the comms) to install a second camera in a closes cockpit that would be very expensive. Especially with high-quality effects it for example such as VDB Cloud Volumes and lighting that goes through.

---

Roberts explains why the performance is so bad at the moment: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/...ad/star-citizen-alpha-3-0-performance-tidbits

Much more developer comments below.

 

[cheapchips]

Honestly though - with what would reasonably have to be the energies involved in futuristic space warfare it wouldn't matter much if the bridge is on the hull of a ship or in the center of it. Without handwavy godmode technology like 'structural integrity field' or such, weapon hits would slice clean through even a big ship...

Yeah, it's another trope.

It would nice for a game to choose that as a fiction beyond the usual cockpits/shields/dogfighting model.

 

[Grall]

There are aliens too.

Do they look like humanoid cats?

It would nice for a game to choose that as a fiction beyond the usual cockpits/shields/dogfighting model.

Well... What would you suggest as an interesting alternative?

I think this trope is there because it's what people expect; since the early days of mechanized warfare we've had metal ships with bridges (latter half of 1800s), and then a few decades later we had motor vehicles and airplanes as well (WWI). That bit has stayed with us, in real life as well as fiction.

 

[cheapchips]

Maybe some sort of combat analogous to submarine warfare? As said originally, not quite sure what gameplay you'd leverage from the vr bunker view. If I had any programming skill what so ever I'd maybe knock up a prototype. As it is, I will continue drinking Christmas wine and not drag the thread too far off topic.

 

[Jupiter]

Do they look like humanoid cats?

There are several alien races but I meant aliens that can cause fear in the player. Like in Alien: Isolation where the director and alien AI make a good system together. It ensures that the player is kept in a constant state of tension without getting up the player in fear. If the player is disadvantaged the pressure is reduced so that he can recover. In contrast, the director applies pressure when the player starts to be good. Than when the player is in too strong position the alien becomes even more threatening.

The alien is basically a tool of the director to apply the pressure. Since the director only tells the alien that the player is in the area they are not directly connected. As the game progresses new behaviors of the alien are unlocked which is intended to teach a learning process. The director can also create a sense of excitement through the environment. For example he controls the sounds, the music, the lighting, and so on which are adding a sense of tension, pressure and anxiety to the player. Often the player is put into a massive disposition to convey a false sense of security. Like a flashlight in a dark room. The player feels safe enough and goes there. Then comes a dramatic sound effect with the hint that something is nearby and the safety barrier, the flashlight, is removed. This brings a sense of fear and vulnerability. Of course this is random and not tied to a predictable script.

In the movie the alien was only seen in parts and coupled with a claustrophobic environment. The spectator had to use his imagination. The more of these elements are used the higher the level of speculation becomes. This causes more anxiety in humans. Because humans are afraid of the unknown. A good movie plays with it.

For Star Citizen and Squadron 42 I want discover wrecks in remote areas. Search for access to the dilapidated interior with headlamps and then enter. In Star Citizen someone stays on the Reclaimer ship and can watch the action on a screen or hologram thanks to the Secondary Viewport technology.

CIG uses the roomsysten to control stations, spaceships, etc. It would be very interesting if the director as described above could be assigned to such spaces and be able to regulate and control environmental factors. That would also make the exploration much more intense.

Enough spun and good night!

 

[Jupiter]

Forgot to mention that the Squadron 42 gameplay was just part of a side mission. If the player does not rescue her she will probably be dead for the future part of the game. (this mission is in the 1/3 of the game). The player can talk to any character on the ship. For example he could have gone to a character in the canteen and interacted with him. Like the one on the microwave etc. Every character of the crew is treated like a hero character and they do not beam themselves to a destination but go, drive or fly there. Cutscenes are just an optional change of camera angle at any time. The player can view everything from his desired angle in first person.

For me it was my favorite singleplayer gameplay video since a long time. Everything works in one piece, interlocks, looks authentic and let me dive deeper into the games universe. I have not seen anything like it yet.
CIG knows what they are doing and more importantly how to do it. They realize what's still missing and still they have shown a game session that clarifies the current state. The demo did not diminish my expectations for Squadron 42 but rather the opposite.

EDIT:
If someone wants to see how they are making capital ships (PDF):
Idris: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/...rce/JumpPoint_05-12_Dec-17_Soonish-Is-Now.pdf
Polaris: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/...int_05-11_Nov-17_Expanding-The-Boundaries.pdf

 

[MfA]

Being able to talk to a lot of people isn't very worthwhile if 1 in a hundred has something worthwhile to say.

If you want to entice people to do timefiller stuff like exploring an talking to lots of npcs you have to make the game open world or rpg. You need lots of little activities/collectibles/quests. Doesn't seem to me Squadron 42 is to be that type of game.

 

[Jupiter]

If it is optional it enhances the immersion tremendously because every character has backgrounds and is not a running zombie. In addition, the characters may die and depending on how much time the player invests into them their deaths will hit him more or less. The other way around it can have a gameplay-related effect on the player if he earned the respect of the NPCs or not. Maybe someday they will deny help etc. They do not just stand around in this ship but have a shedule and do their work.

 

[Malo]

I don’t think every NPC needs to be the security guard from Austin Powers.

 

[Jupiter]

Some nice fighting in the atmosphere

https://imgur.com/aI4rPqM

 

[eastmen]

Does this really excite you guys?

I was bored after 5min watching him running around in a lifeless corridor with basically nothing.

Is this really what you want? Realism to the point it gets boring?

Did you ever play Ultima Online ? I did and the majority of the was just me and my buds sitting in a castle goofing off or in a dungeon goofing off . There were no raids in that game. That is what i would love for this game to be , go online with some friends or maybe go online with some of you guys and just goof off and make our own fun. At least for the PU for the single player portion



Now onto this demo , its been 5 years and we still don't have this game and what they showed looks uninteresting . For a single player game i was hoping for a tighter experiance. I really wish they were further along and perhaps gave this a higher priority so the game exists and we can play it while they work on the PU however i know the pu is the money side where they can keep reselling limited edition ships over and over again for profit

 

[Grall]

Talked to a mate of mine this morning, he tested the "3.0" "alpha" release today and he said basically nothing whatsoever in the game worked. Even stuff which used to work were completely borked. The game wouldn't even finish loading, instead it died on an eternally black screen. His system is completely modern, up-to-date hardware and software, including 6-core CPU, Geforce 1080 and windows 10.

/golfclap

Get shit together first, then add features!

 

[Jupiter]

I had the problem with the infinite loading screen in a test version of 3.0 while in the official Alpha 3.0 I had not such a problem. I also have some friends that have been playing Alpha 3.0 over 50 hours so far. Maybe he does not have the game on a SSD.
It does not crash that often (there are also some 9 hour long gameplay videos) and there are differences in performance (CIG is trying to find out the causes dev comments: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/...ad/star-citizen-alpha-3-0-performance-tidbits). A few players with a good system get 10fps while most other with a similar system get 25+fps. With Intel 8700K most people had around 35 fps.

Now that 3.0 is out I imagine there will be a focus to optimize and fine tune the client and prepare it for future content so it runs as good as possible. Still a few problems in the road but we should getting there.

In my opinion the biggest problem will be how to realize tenthousands of games on a server. It is easily possible with a new engine thanks to new publicly accessible material from cutting edge technology in this field but in the early days they did not have anyone working on cutting edge technology in this area.

 

[Jupiter]

That it is not unplayable is also confirmed by an article in a large German technical magazine:

"It's getting harder and harder to log out.

I wake up. I am surrounded by green painted metal walls. When I get up from my cabin, I remember it: I'm at the space port of Port Olisar and a big day is coming up. My assignment is to pick up medicine from moon Yela and deliver it here. In the central room I collect my MISC freelancers from an interactive terminal. As a medium-sized cargo ship, it is well suited for such missions.

I'm in the Stanton system, the first part of the ever-expanding universe of Star Citizen. Chris Roberts and his team of Cloud Imperium Games (CIG) have released alpha version 3.0 with lots of new content for all supporters at Christmas 2017. Admittedly, I am a big fan of the project - someone who has already invested several hundred euros in it himself. I am happy about every improvement and new announcement, and the Alpha 3.0 brings a lot of it.

I can now accept more missions, land on three moons and explore wrecks and outposts there, or just take the Dragonfly Speedbike for a spin around the crater. Also new are the interactive terminals described at the beginning, where I pick up ships and buy goods, or the endurance system, which provides for a loud panting of the game character and a restless hand when aiming.

It is this immersion that makes Star Citizen so exciting for me. I'm a pilot, walking around on stations and planets, flying one-man fighters or huge battle cruisers with other pilots. Every little detail in the space simulation, from the heavy breathing of the toy figure to the hydraulics of my freelancer's loading ramp, is animated and well thought-out. I feel like I'm in a real future, and that makes it harder and harder for me to log out again - in a good sense.

In which space play can I walk around in my spaceship, park other spaceships there, lay down in bed or set the rear shields and thrust to one hundred percent on the pilot's seat via different monitors? Star Citizen is already in this early version a very ambitious project, where the team has often overestimated themselves.

It is also this size that gives many critics of the game justified doubts about its completion. The extremely successful kick-start campaign was already setting ever higher goals. Originally there should be no accessible planets and moons or alien languages. In addition, there is the meticulous attention to detail of every small component, which has caused the deadlines for Star Citizen to shift ever further backwards. A negative example is the single-player campaign Squadron 42, which was originally planned to be released a year ago. Currently, the year 2018 is likely.

Some actions, such as so-called concept sales of ships and vehicles under development, some of which cost several hundred dollars, are indeed questionable. The explorer ship and fan favourite Anvil Carrack has been in development for several months. There is no release date in sight yet. The price is $350.

Since its launch on Kickstarter 2012, the development studio has been financing its work with such offers. While $2,500 for a Javelin class destroyer is absurd even to me, sales help turn the promising dream into a complete game. More than 175 million US dollars have so far been able to bring together supporters. There are several hundred thousand US dollars more every day. The basic game including the starter ship will cost no more than a current full price game with about 60 US dollars.

Menu items are still unclear

First I check the location of the target on the moon Yela with my new Alpha 3.0 hand tool Mobiglas. This is important for navigation, because now celestial bodies turn around their own axis. Therefore, the moon orbits several jump points which I can approach with my ship. But this solution is very complicated. Hopefully you will soon be able to set your own jump points on the map. CIG has to improve the interface in any case: The semi-transparent holographic control elements are barely visible - especially in direct sunlight.

On approaching the moon I fly into complete darkness, only the position lights of the outpost are visible. What I can't see is the distance to the target. Even in Alpha 3.0, it is still difficult to see the information displayed on the screen. This is almost always the case when navigation points overlap. CIG urgently needs to improve this situation.

When landing, the thrust nozzles of my ship rotate and three small feet extend. Chris Roberts' team cares about the correct functioning of every ship. In my freelancer's case it is the thrusters, in a Reliant the complete cockpit rotates 90 degrees, so that the pilot can fly upright in combat and touch down horizontally during the landing approach - completely in the style of iconic Star Wars ships like Boba Fetts Slave 1. few space simulations attach so much importance to small details away from rotating turrets. The claim of Star Citizen lies in realism, and not every player will like it.

The fact that Star Citizen is serious about realistic space simulation is something I also notice in the cargo system. I leave the cargo hatch of my ship open, I shut down the engines. New: In Alpha 3.0, ships can no longer simply be stolen by other people. There's a small parcel in the outpost: This must be the medicine I'm supposed to pick up.

I am lifting the cargo with the inspection mode introduced in Alpha 3.0. I have to manually return the package to my ship and drop it there. That costs time, just like much in Star Citizen: The approach to the moon already took a good five minutes. The jump from the space port to the destination is also quite long. If there is more than one solar system at some point in time, jumps between them should take several minutes. In Star Citizen I need a lot of time, which will bore many in the long run.

Transporting an invisible crate

Also an annoying bug: My medical kit disappears as soon as I pick it up. The quest marker at least indicates it. I therefore walk to the pilot's seat of my freelancers and drop them off next to me. A maximum of four persons can be seated in the ship. One crew member could control the stern tower while another pilot controls the energy of shields and weapons. The multi-crew concept is an integral part of Star Citizen. However, most seats in almost all ships do not yet have a function.

Via the star chart I jump back to Port Olisar. In Alpha 3.0, however, there are other places - including the former Levski mine base and the Grim Hex station, which was drilled into an asteroid. Each port has a background story that is told in different blog posts outside of the game. This also applies to the history of fictitious companies such as Anvil Aerospace or Musashi Industrial and Starflight Concern. If you like, you can really think your way into the world of Star Citizen.

On approach, I'll open the new com system on board. Without permission to dock, Alpha 3.0 marked me as criminal. This in turn influences the missions I can take on. If I don't care about the law, I can go hunting for traders like a pirate later on - Yaaargh!

Off to the next adventure

After landing, I take the invisible crate and walk to the dispatcher of the station. The computer-controlled contact person accepts them and places them under his counter. Since Alpha 3.0, there are many NPCs in the solar system that already have fluid animations, but still get stuck in walls and obstacles. A message appears on the display:"Successful order - Reward: 155 aUEC". Maybe next I'll try myself on a more dangerous mission, the hunt for a pirate squadron seems promising. So I hurry to the landing platform. My freelancers are waiting for me.

Already the Alpha 3.0 with its three moons and a few space stations shows what potential Star Citizen has. What Cloud Imperium Games shows is already more than many a full price title delivers. There are dozens of playable and walkable ships, some as big as an entire level. There are many different missions, a combat simulator and even race tracks. If I want, I can spend many hours on the procedurally generated moons.

Nevertheless, there is still a lot to do: first priority should be the performance of the game. In Alpha 3.0 the game is already usable. However, frame rates of more than 20 frames per second are hardly possible even for high-end PCs. Afterwards the confusing interface should be reworked. Then we will go to Alpha version 3.1, for which a functioning mining system is planned. Everything else is in the virtual stars."

Source: https://www.golem.de/news/star-citi...schwieriger-sich-auszuloggen-1801-131888.html

 

[MfA]

It is easily possible with a new engine thanks to new publicly accessible material from cutting edge technology in this field but in the early days they did not have anyone working on cutting edge technology in this area.

They basically have to rip out and replace their entire network stack and prediction code and start from scratch, in an area where the only programmers with slightly relevant expertise are "webscale" programmers ... even the incompetent of which earn massive salaries, let alone the competent ones. So more likely you'll just get intelligent people and let them research it from scratch, with lots of fail along the way (ala Eve).

 

[CSI PC]

They basically have to rip out and replace their entire network stack and prediction code and start from scratch, in an area where the only programmers with slightly relevant expertise are "webscale" programmers ... even the incompetent of which earn massive salaries, let alone the competent ones. So more likely you'll just get intelligent people and let them research it from scratch, with lots of fail along the way (ala Eve).

Yeah it is incredibly niche expertise but goes beyond webscale programmers, it also includes a small number of communication/telecom engineers with expertise in protocols/OS/apps/network products at engineering level.
The tools they use can be £120k-£200k+ and requires extensive knowledge/understanding to use correctly and go well beyond what most think of as network analysers; the product works as both an analyser/modeller and also custom script loading (high function complexity at various levels of the OSI layers) stimulating networks and relevant products/servers for true massive scale workloads-session communications/etc.

Even in the telecom/network companies both manufacturers and providors those with this level of expertise (context all aspects of a functioning solution-architecture) is usually 1 or 2 in the whole of the global engineering teams; talking from experience when working with some of these companies.
Very tricky to do well and efficiently on a large scale being the context.
Requires an overlap of specialist knowledge and experience that usually does not happen for most employees.

 

[MfA]

The physical network itself is hardly relevant, the necessary bandwidth is comparatively tiny and the latency you have to deal with is no different for 10 players as a 1000. It's a database and physics problem, how to do physics updates for 1000s of entities and how to generate+compress thousands of worldviews in a single tick. Also the client needs to be able to do good culling and LOD management of course.

 

[Jupiter]

Today there are techniques to realize very powerful virtual servers with the computing power of thousands of normal servers. The problem is that one has to throw away all classic server code and start over again. The second problem is that it is much more complicated to run the server code on the client as well. This does not make it easy to develop an MMO and singleplayer game on the same code base. And if one rewrites the server code of an MMO one has to rewrite the gamelogic part in the client too.