Rage / ID tech 5 @ E3

Discussion in 'PC Gaming' started by slapnutz, Jul 15, 2008.

  1. Laa-Yosh

    Laa-Yosh I can has custom title?
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    You realize that those aren't some super high res textures at all?

    They're the same old detail maps that we've first seen in Unreal, only here they're added to the normal channel as well. Basicaly a simple 256*256 or even smaller map repeated all over the surface, on top of the standard color/normal textures.
     
  2. Neb

    Neb Iron "BEAST" Man
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    Yet the texture (if built up by smaller textures also*) doesnt present any tiling patterns/missmatch and still gives a surface with huge fine grain detail on objects. The end result speaks volumes, simple as that. But I'll wait until more screenshots of Rage are realeased that are not promo shots but native buffer grabs to see if they will do something special for PC anyways (in the future)! :wink:

    The potential is sure there, I just want it exploited for my eyes to enjoy when I play Rage. I want the VRAM to be used, 512MB is standard and 1GB will soon be it to.

    * Sounds strange since the texture art pattern is different throughout the whole object surface. If object detail area is composed of small texture tiles then they are not of the same detail pattern. And not to forget the extra detail added by the shaders at higher settings and how bullet holes/marks blends in perfectly due to that. Anyways sure it wasnt Dunia engine you meant?
     
    #122 Neb, Aug 18, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 18, 2008
  3. Sxotty

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    Nebula the first shot looks good, but others notably the fence and building do not look as nice IMO.
     
  4. Gabrobot

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  5. Richard

    Richard Mord's imaginary friend
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    No more shaky-cam. Direct-feed video here.
     
  6. Sxotty

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    That looks worlds better without the shaky cam. Thanks for the link.
     
  7. suryad

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    Thanks for the link Richard. The visuals are very impressive. It looked good and interesting at the beginning but then whats up with the dune buggies? Seems to me they are kind of going in the direction that Mafia went except I wanted to drive those cars in Mafia. This somehow I am not feeling it. Obviously I dont know much more about the storyline of the game but if all that is in-game its going to be awesome.

    That said I wonder if it is much harder to create a tropical rain forest like environment a la Crysis than it is to create a desert like environment without much foliage in terms of hardware requirements and processing power etc. I would think if Crysis didnt have all that vegetation the game might actually be running a lot better with a lot more fps!
     
  8. Laa-Yosh

    Laa-Yosh I can has custom title?
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    It'd also be quite barren without all the instanced vegetation.
     
  9. Neb

    Neb Iron "BEAST" Man
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    Thanks for backing up my point, even the body from Rage promo screen downscaled from 2560x1600 cant match a blurry Crysis body screenshot part. :smile:

    Here is a buffer grab of the body I took myself some time ago.

    Image

    But I think the point is already made and there is no need to take this further so far. And the primary point was talk about "Disc space is limiting games" and Crysis with its 6GB install and visuals...well! :wink:
     
    #129 Neb, Aug 20, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 20, 2008
  10. Neb

    Neb Iron "BEAST" Man
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    Huge difference by using the varaibel to hide vegetation. But then it wont be Crysis anymore... :smile:
     
  11. Sxotty

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    I can't say I have any idea what your point is anymore. Except that you adore crysis.
     
  12. Chris123234

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    His point is that Crysis looks more awesome without needing a Bluray disc.
     
  13. Neb

    Neb Iron "BEAST" Man
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    Yep, I dont see how the limiter for games graphics would be disc space instead of GPU processing power and VRAM/RAM amount. PS3 games on Blu-ray filling up 25-50GB dont look any better than counterparts on xbox360 that uses DVD discs. And Crysis was an example of how such a good looking and advanced game only "zips" 6GB of the HDD. Gears of War for PC uses 12GB disk space yet it isnt close at all etc. :smile:
     
  14. Sxotty

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    Nebula that was already covered. You obviously quite enjoy crysis and more power to you for it.

    Showing a few still photos doesn't really get to the entire point of this sort of technology. The point is repetition can be avoided. Other attempts in the past like crysis add decals to try and hide the repetition, or other similar methods, but it is still there. That can be thought of as a form of compression.

    In that case what you are really saying is you like the results from compressing texture data by increasing repetition and then trying to hide, or disguise it. That is a completely valid viewpoint. Others might well have a different viewpoint.
     
  15. suryad

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    True true. Just wanted to know if yall agree that all the vegetation being rendered is the main thing for the fps hit that Crysis takes on most hardware.
     
  16. Gabrobot

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    The Rage section is downscaled to about 92% original size to match the section I pulled from Crysis (which was an uncompressed TGA taken with FRAPS at a resolution of 1680x1050...it was also downscaled by a similar amount). Neither shots have AA, any smoothing is from the downscale. All settings set to High in Crysis. The Rage shot was already compressed, so in this pic it's been compressed twice. The Crysis section being from an uncompressed image has been compressed once. Despite the Rage shot being bigger, the character takes up significantly less space so the actual resolution of the sections should be comparable (I think the Rage section was actually downscaled less, you can tell by the aliasing still around the edges of the arm). The Crysis character was being held by the player, so that was the distance from the camera.


    The main point here is that Rage can push texture resolutions comparable with Crysis, while running at 60fps on a system with only 512MB of total memory. Of course it's also not rendering a ton of alpha blended textures like Crysis is. However this brings up the use of unique textures...

    Crysis can hide its massive asset cloning because the color/texture make-up does not need to differ much, and repetition can be hidden through random orientation of each instance of the object. Rage's post apocalyptic semi-urban environments can not get away with that. I ask you how Crysis would handle a scene like this: http://myweb.students.wwu.edu/~conroyg/quakewarscompare/QuickTimePlayer 2008-08-20 19-28-15-63.jpg

    I think Crysis does some really cool stuff, but it just seems to take a brute force way of rendering. I had to play the damn thing at 800x600 on a 7800GT when it came out to get a framerate I was happy with! (Needless to say, I borrowed someone else's computer to take the comparison shot) I'm not trying to take down Crysis, I'm just really puzzled why you're so upset about Rage's use of storage space when the tradeoff seems to be IMHO a pretty good sweet spot, at least for what it's doing. And it's worth noting that id Tech 5's method takes a ton of pressure off of the artists because they no longer have to worry about texture budgets and hiding repetition.
     
  17. ShaidarHaran

    ShaidarHaran hardware monkey
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    Check out this thread.

    Looks like horrible misuse of the Direct3D API is the culprit.
     
  18. thehulk

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    Nah, why bother explaining anything ?
    Everyone knows Crysis is the awesomnest and it's "lightyears beyond Rage in all areas" !! :roll:
     
  19. Neb

    Neb Iron "BEAST" Man
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    Thats OK, I was basing my statement on high settings or better like in the buffer grab in post above.

    Rage can due to its engine but the shown version doesnt. Artwork aside and how its done to get the final result onscreen.

    True, disabling vegetation reveals the grounds tiling. Clever use of assets and clever shaders hides tiling/differences and reduces repetion differences quite good. That scene, I dont know, seems like a small scene, apart from artwork I dont see anything there unique compared to other games with same size scenes. Im sure it would in large scenes with large draw-distance and lots of buildings and terrain obstacles. But I guess lots of forest and realistic art doesnt stand out as much as artistic free art.

    It really was initially about Crysis 6GB install producing such high fine grain detail on most stuff and overall graphics vs games being limited by disc media instead of GPU power comment.

    Perhaps I am picky but seeing graphic cards with 512MB and soon the new standard of 1024MB VRAM being standard I would like it to go one step ahead and not one backwards regarding fine grain detail. I assume DOOM4 will take several steps ahead.
     
  20. suryad

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    Hey thanks somehow I had missed looking at that thread. That does answer a lot of my questions. So in situations where there are so many calls made, whats the remedy then to allow the game to perform better at higher settings? Massively faster graphics cards and higher bandwidth?
     
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