Radeon HD 2900 (R600) reviews thread

Discussion in '3D Hardware, Software & Output Devices' started by Geeforcer, May 10, 2007.

  1. neliz

    neliz GIGABYTE Man
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    It depends how quickly it will be replaced by an R650 part. but I certainly know I wouldn't have bought it if it was priced at €480.
     
  2. Ramalth

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    Hello everyone. New around here.




    Yeah, but if they (ATI/AMD) added 100$ to the price with the promise of better performance in 4 or 5 months, NOBODY would buy them right now... So they set the price according to present perfomance, and work on improving it while still having sales. What would happen if they sort out what seems to be drivers problems and increase perfomance to near GTX level? Well, they would have much better sales numbers, thats for sure... And they would still be a company making money (more sales = more money), not a charity.
     
  3. Skinner

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    8.3742 driver

    Some remarkable COH numbers:

    [​IMG]
     
  4. Sound_Card

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    R600 seems to win some, then lose some. This may be beaten to death already, but I would think some stuff in R600 is broken. Some games, R600 is slower than R580, then in a few others, it's around GTX speed. The card seems to be on and off across the board. From what I'm seeing, I would think their is some decent amount of driver head room in the chip.

    7.5's are due anyday now. So we will see what that brings.
     
  5. Tridam

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    AA is not supported by the game. However Nvidia implemented it directly in the drivers just like it happened with Oblivion. I told AMD about this and Chuck should be working on it ;)
     
  6. AlexV

    AlexV Heteroscedasticitate
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    This is getting tiresome...how can I explain so that eventuall somebody gets it. Oh, I get it....NO. Considering the hype that surrounded it, the fact that generally you can get away with a lot of stuff when launching a new product when the market has a certain mindset towards you(like everybody seems to be vigorously stroking when the ATi logo appears, singing Hallelujah, hail thee mighty saviour, doer of no wrong), mindset of which you are aware, you make the best of it if you know you won`t be caught by the balls later(in this case getting caught by the balls meaning inability to produce comparative/better performance across the board, as I`ve stated previously). Considering everyone believes almost anything ATi says(family launch, hugeish improvements through drivers, we're not late, everything is spiffy etc.), they could`ve safely gotten away with a higher price on it if they had utmost certainty that they`d outgun the GTX. The only other explanation would be that they`re late enough that the R650 is so near it wouldn`t have made sense and it would`ve put them in an awkward position, but there`s no noise about R650 yet, whilst in the R520->R580 transition there was quite a bit of it.

    It may seem like it`s not possible but, really, you can`t sell at any price in any condition-if you have crap margins(how many dice per wafer do you think come back in tippy top X2900 fit shape, considering it`s a 700 mln trannie chip with fairly highish complexity aimed at a high clockrate), or you`re selling at a loss, you`re not doing much good to yourself. Because you have to also recuperate your investment, these chips don`t come out of thin air you know, R&D is expensive, for example. More sales=more money...more real money or more imaginary money?Coz, you know, if you make 1$ per card and it costs you 1.1$ to make it, factoring in everything you`ve put in, you`re actually losing money. Just food for thought.
     
  7. Star_Hunter

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    It should be noted that ATI only pays for the chips that work, therefore bad yields only hurt supply. If you set it at $499 almost no one would buy, its that simple. You talk about margins yet no one really knows the margins on the R600. I doubt they are losing money at $399 per card (although it could be losing R&D money overall) but sometimes you have to take a loss in order to limit the customer base loss. If the drivers were easy to write for the R600 and they know they can reach the GTX then they may have gone for the $499 pricepoint, but since its hard to code for it they wanted to make sure they were covered if they couldn't do it.
     
  8. mito

    mito beyond noob
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    from HardOp.................. :|
     
  9. Geeforcer

    Geeforcer Harmlessly Evil
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    Isn't HDR bugged in R6 on 2900XT?
     
  10. AlexV

    AlexV Heteroscedasticitate
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    Why would almost no one buy?Why did ppl buy the FX, which was arguably worse than this at release(yes, even in DX8 it pretty much sucked balls when AA came in, it was louder etc.)?Why give a huuuuge hint(lowish price) to your extremely loyal customer base that you can`t compete at the high-end?Because they`re nice guys?I see a billion ppl whining that they made a poor choice by waiting for it, and ignoring that basically it doesn`t suck as a card and it`s ok. I`d argue many would`ve swarmed over it at a higher price-point, because it`s ATi and they always improve, and the fact that it does ok in some benchies would`ve fed this line of thought. Joe Doe rich prick doesn`t know anything worth a damn about ALUs and such, but he pretty much equates performance with price. It`s a mindset thing. And I doubt that AMD marketers are retarded and ignore. They`ve priced it as such, IMHO, because they knew they wouldn`t get away with pricing it higher and thus competing at the high-end, not because they feared some customer-base erosion(which is unlikely to have occured anyhow) and not because they want....let me remember this one...umm, market penetration.IMHO.
     
  11. Subtlesnake

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    Nobody bought the FX 5800. The 5900 did better, but the Steam survey showed that only a small minority of gamers purchased them (when compared with the 9800). Nvidia's past dominance in the industry mattered little - the FX series tanked, despite offering very competitive performance in a lot of cases, with the FX 5700 being in a dead heat with the 9600 Pro.

    Had AMD priced the card higher there's a real risk that a similarly negative perception of the series could have been created.
     
  12. AlexV

    AlexV Heteroscedasticitate
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    Nobody?Mild exaggeration there?And the Steam survey is a really really poor source of information. In terms of marketshare, even though it sucked quite badly, the entire FX line didn`t hurt nVidia in a sinister way...they lost some, yes, but financially I think they were doing well even then, with good margins etc.

    Anyway, this is pointless. Anybody who likes ATi will see the pricetag as their ultimate gift to end-users, proof of their ongoing love for the people etc. Since I don`t have any inclination towards any IHV, I see it as something forced, indicating that they`re in a tigtish spot. Overall, it`s an irrelevant argument.
     
  13. Geeforcer

    Geeforcer Harmlessly Evil
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    While I am sure that NV3x sales on whole were much worse than R3xx, for that particular generation Steam survey is not the best measure of relative sales simply due to the fact that HL2 was bundled with Radeons. I wonder if this effect will again surface in this generation.
     
  14. SugarCoat

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    The actual voucher only came with some laptops equipped with 9600s and retail boxed 9800/9600XTs (the latter of which were rare). Not every card. You're also implying that a significant number of people went out and spent hundreds of dollars simply to have a voucher for a game that wasnt due out for quite some time.

    Furthermore the survey has been restarted three or four times since it was first started, the last time being in November of 06, so i think that debunks numbers skewing from vouchers pretty much entirely, not to mention the second most common card is infact the FX 5200 (also one of the last cards sold in PCI version which i dont think is a coincidence). Its problably the most accurate and varried survey for its size in existence and an excellent source of who is currently using what.
     
  15. Geeforcer

    Geeforcer Harmlessly Evil
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    What I am implying is that the percentage of R9800/R9600 owners who were likely to participated in the survey is much higher than the percentage of FX 5xxx owners. That's all.
     
  16. neliz

    neliz GIGABYTE Man
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    I'll tell you monday
     
  17. Geeforcer

    Geeforcer Harmlessly Evil
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    Ok, thanks. Looking forward to it.
     
  18. PeterAce

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    Was really hoping for a IXBT/Digital-Life review of R600 that used Rightmark3D (compared to 8800 GTX/GTS, X1950 and 7900) :(
     
  19. Arnold Beckenbauer

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  20. Tim Murray

    Tim Murray the Windom Earle of mobile SOCs
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    Murray's Law: Every thread comes back to NV3x versus R3x0. Every single one.
     
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