PSP2 features - the handheld version *renamed

Discussion in 'Mobile Devices and SoCs' started by AzBat, Jul 7, 2009.

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  1. tongue_of_colicab

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    Anyone who things phones have, or will ever win the handheld gaming war just don't get it.

    As for graphics, didn't the psp initially get the same reception? With every handheld Nintendo showed that it's not graphics that sell, its price, batterylife and games. Sure you will sell handhelds with good graphics alone but for the huge succes you need more than that.
     
  2. Exophase

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    Competitive factors are complex. One of the reasons Nintendo had an advantage is because they've always been ahead and thus had a lot of momentum with developers. PSP has done better against DS than any other handheld has done against Nintendo. Just getting their foot in the door competitively is a big step - for instance, MS didn't do that amazingly with the original XBox but they launched themselves and afaik have been doing better with XBox 360.

    DS brought touch screen gaming to mainstream handhelds, which I think did a lot to make more appealing. The 3D hardware was pretty weak while the 2D hardware remained pretty strong, so consequently there was still a large focus on 2D games that cost less to develop, and 3D games that didn't cost that much comparatively.

    With 3DS, on the other hand, their "gimmick" is the 3D display, which IMO won't be as big of a differentiator, especially if Sony does it too (although they'd get slammed for being copycats). It's the improved visuals that are stealing the show, and it's apparent that game companies are aiming for more console quality/higher budget games. So that gap is narrowed, but there's still a lot that can be done to edge out graphically.

    Sony can also stand to not repeat other mistakes, like UMD.

    Like usual, the biggest problem is going to be third party support, because right now 3DS has positively gobbled up the industry, in addition to having the usual tour de force that is Nintendo's first party lineup. Coming late to the game on this one is going to hurt Sony a lot; they gained a lot of ground by announcing PSP quite early.
     
  3. NeoTechni

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    Disagreed. It's why most people bought PSP in the first place. PSP2 is undoubtedly going to be many times more powerful than 3DS.
     
  4. Entropy

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    I agree with everything above, with but a small change: "But that 1.5x is still a big deal to some people."

    I don't think we can say that. Indeed I'm quite certain that quite a few people will be impressed by something better (I'm one). The question is rather how many, and what kind of financial investments does this group justify.

    Well, I think it is hard to argue that the phones won't dominate handheld gaming in terms of volume.
    Again, the question is rather what the handheld games consoles can do to differentiate themselves, and if the market is there to justify large development budgets for games exclusively targeting the platforms.
    And those are non-trivial questions.

    Nintendo offers two hardware selling points - 3D, and an ample supply of physical controls. (And is well positioned in terms of exclusive content.)
    Sony seems to hedge their bets with a two pronged bid - the PSPhone, that offers physical gaming controls in addition to a phone, and the PSP2 that by the rumours aims for technological strength and physical gaming controls as its selling points.

    I believe that Nintendo will have some degree of success, although I do believe that the price point of the 3DS will hurt it in terms of volume. It seems largely positioned outside the brain training and Nintendogs market window.

    Sony is obviously unsure of which way the market will go and it will be very interesting to see if they actually release two competing platforms and if so, how the sales of those will pan out. Sony clearly doesn't know, and nor do I. The PSP2 could be a nice test case of how strong a sales driver technology still is in handheld gaming.
     
  5. Brad Grenz

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    I am curious how PSP2 will be positioned. It could end up with a lot of the functionality of the iPad in a smaller form factor, (or a bigger iPod Touch) but with buttons. I think the idea that the PSP2 could be sold in two versions like the iPad, one wifi, and one with a cellular data option, is also very possible. So it could, like the PS3, be sold as a very powerful conversion device with a fully featured web browser, e-reader, HD video player (with hdmi out), possibly cameras, skype again, and something akin to an app store, plus big budget exclusive games and bluetooth controller support. That would be something really easy to extend the "It Only Does Everything" marketing to.

    If Nintendo can get away with the $250 price point for the 3DS, Sony could easily slip the PSP2 in at $299, highlighting much better graphics and far more functionality.
     
  6. NeoTechni

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    Agreed. Those people just hate gaming...
     
  7. brain_stew

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    Well Sony sold over 60 million PSP units, its hard to imagine a scenario where the graphics of the system weren't a factor in some of those purchases.

    Giving developers direct access to something like a SGX543MP4 should make the system the leader in mobile graphics for a good 3-4 years. Even with the vastly superior hardware, most iOS games still can't compete with PSP titles, so a nice piece of hardware like that should retain that USP for several years and yes, it does matter.
     
  8. tongue_of_colicab

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    I agree. That is why is said if you want the huge succes you will need more/maybe not need high end graphics. Probably most people bought a psp because of the graphics. But if you want the nintendo succes with not only high hardware sales but also high software sales you need more than graphics. Just look at why nintendo handhelds where always so succesful over the competition. Battery life and games.
     
  9. Exophase

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    DS isn't successful because of battery life and it isn't successful because of how it attracted third parties, it's successful because of Nintendo branding and the sheer volume of high sellers they produce. You can't repeat that by making hardware decisions, you can only really repeat that by being Nintendo.
     
  10. MfA

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    Pushing more polygons just pales in the technological glitz department compared to stereoscopic 3D (which Sony itself is heavily pushing for non mobile markets).

    Sony is fucked unless they go 3D, they won't be able to position for a higher end niche without it. More polygons? Nice, but it's still not auto-stereoscopic. A touch pad on the back? Seriously? That's a selling point? I think the touch pad is a direct response to the DS dual display and 3DS auto-stereoscopic display, trying to get more differentiation ... it's also the wrong response.

    First and foremost the PSP2 should put the best images on the nicest looking screen, that's their niche ... not gimmicks.
     
  11. rapso

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    Isn't it always like that with sony? "it does just everything... everything other devices can, but nothing special" and I feel sorry for sony. it's like they have no idea what's fun. I can imagin some high paid manager sitting around the table brainstorming some feature, because they have to, none that has any gamer spirit. And captain obvious has to slap them with a keyboard to make them create a PSP-phone. what was the PSP usp? it plays some awkward media (UMB) and u can't even connect it to your TV so u had to buy the movies twice.

    I wonder how many decades it will take Sony to embed some "console" into their TVs. Probably after the next appleTV has an appstore for 5years they might realize it the opportunity they missed yet again.
     
  12. MfA

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    You're turning my argument around.

    I'm arguing that first and foremost they should do everything the other devices can just a little better, at least as far as the non gimmicks is concerned (I personally consider the DS second screen a gimmick, but not the stereoscopic screen on the 3DS). Doing something special is a secondary concern.

    That's what you have to do if you want to beat an incumbent with a higher value product, you just can't afford to be objectively worse on something as important as the screen. If they were shooting to undercut Nintendo on pricing they might be able to get away without a stereoscopic display (although they would probably need gimmicks to sell it, such as the bottom touch pad). I seriously doubt they would do that though.
     
  13. wco81

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    We'll see if Epic changes the economics of iOS gaming but likely not. People can be entertained or stretches of time with 99 cents games just as well as with $40-50 games while they're away from home.

    At least that's what iOS games have conditioned some people to expect.

    PSP came out with only one competitor, the DS/GBA. Now it's coming out against the 3DS and smart phones.

    It's really going to have to knock people's socks off to get a lot of people to pony up over $200 and $50 for games when a lot of those people already paid $200 for smart phones and have a monthly bill of at least $60.

    There will be a certain number of people who will spend the extra money. But a lot of people won't bother. They may decide to apply that $200+ towards consoles and console games instead or some other entertainment to complement the diversions they can get on their smart phones.

    Sony could target people who don't have smart phones yet. But they'd be passing up ona lucrative, very fast-growing demographic.
     
  14. rapso

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    ok, then we have different opinions. I don't think that doing everything other device do is enough, even if you do it better, because poeple will have a high price tag to pay for something that they kinda already own (e.g. when they have an iphone) but with "slightly more/better".
    Being "better" meant in the past to offer better visuals and that was something that really improved the experience, you could have n-times the polycount on PS2 compared to PSX, and while poeple couldn't really understand just the number, they saw some games with way improved gfx and gameplay possibilities (e.g. GTA3).
    So "better/faster" was quite an argument, but now that you can play your NFS, CoD... on all mobile platforms, having some more polys, some better shader, higher res screen and input-gimmick-devices that don't change the experience, is kind of just a check-list feeding.

    I don't have an NDS, but I really consider to buy a 3DS, just for the sake of the 3d screen (and I hope there will be some homebrew for it).

    I agree with you, that the PSP2 should do everything that all other device already do, but that's something mandatory, it's not like a feature that would make me buy it. Even if the PSP2 could play fullHD movies on the display and would have 3 cams pointing in every direction and the whole case would be covered by touch sensitive sensors and running android, it wouldn't be as much of an argument like just offering GT Mobile 2 at launch.


    even from a programmer's point of view, I feel less and less excited. It sounds like it would have the usual mobile hardware, maybe more powerful for a year or two than iphones, but that's just a matter of time.

    I hope sony has some secret ultimate feature that can compete with the 3DS.
     
  15. NeoTechni

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    Agreed

    Agreed

    Or you dont.

    It helps if you actually learn it's name.
    It's like when people ask the phone number for 911.

    The problem is, the better iphone game gaming gets, the worse it gets at being a phone or whatever else you want to use that precious battery life for. When I use the web browser on my ipod touch for example I can watch the battery life go down a percent a minute or so.

    Agreed, hence why Sony needs it.

    As a programmer, PSP2 has me a lot more excited. It will do a lot more for actual gaming being extremely power than 3DS will. Hell, 3DS is slightly weaker than PSP1!

    iPhone probably will get more powerful given enough time. But there's that whole race-to-the-bottom pricing effect that developers hate. iPhone users have been trained to go for what, $2 average for games? You can't make Gran Turismo/God of War for $2. If you compare Ace Combat on PSP and iphone, the iphone one is a joke.
     
  16. Aeoniss

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    How is the 3DS slightly inferior to the PSP1?
     
  17. Exophase

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    Probably only going off of the rumors that it's 2x 266MHz ARM11 and comparing that straight to 333MHz MIPS. The GPU capabilities are probably better in any useful sense.
     
  18. NeoTechni

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  19. Aeoniss

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    Yes, but a slim PSP doesn't actually use all that memory for games.

    So the PSP's single 333Mhz core is about equal to the 3DS (rumored) cpu? Jeez..
     
  20. brain_stew

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    Th only reasonable measure by which a PSP is faster than the 3DS as far as I can see is CPU floating point, and considering the 3DS has quite beefy vertex shader hardware well I don't think its going to mean all that much. Fact is, we have launch 3DS software that absolutely blows away anything produced on the PSP in its entire lifespan, and really, that's what matters in the end.

    Newer models of the PSP having an extra 32MB of RAM for UMD caching and web browsing counts for very little if games don't have direct access to it, and they don't.
     
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