PSP2 features - the handheld version *renamed

[AzBat]

SGX543 in PSP2?

http://www.eurogamer.es/articles/caracteristicas-graficas-de-la-psp2

My Spanish is a little rusty

Spoiler

OK a lot rusty, LOL

Tommy McClain

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Digital Foundry weighs in...

So just how plausible is the original Spanish Eurogamer report? Having shared with us some of the more "off the record" information about the source of the info, it's a likely proposition, not least because Sony is hotly rumoured to have been the mystery "major international consumer electronics company" mentioned in this press release issued back in November last year.

 

[obonicus]

The gist of the rumor is the SGX543 with 4 cores codenamed 'hydra'. All the rest in the eurogamer.es post is them speculating based on the SGX543 press release.

 

[Boxercide]

Rumored PSP2 Specs

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-psp2-features-quad-core-gpu-blog-entry

excerpts:

The site claims to have insider sources that reckon that a quad core iteration of the low-power SGX543MP chip, codenamed "Hydra", will be present in the next generation handheld, not to be confused with the forthcoming PSPgo.

According to the original report, PSP2 opts for a quad configuration offering notional specs of 133 million polygons per second, and 4Gpixels/sec fillrate, assuming that Hydra operates at the chip's low-end of 200MHz (higher speed variants are also available, presumably for desktop use). While specs like this are always subject to interpretation, these figures are a ballpark match for the original Xbox.

Thoughts, comments, opinions, speculations?

 

[Jack_Tripper]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-psp2-features-quad-core-gpu-blog-entry

excerpts:

The site claims to have insider sources that reckon that a quad core iteration of the low-power SGX543MP chip, codenamed "Hydra", will be present in the next generation handheld, not to be confused with the forthcoming PSPgo.

According to the original report, PSP2 opts for a quad configuration offering notional specs of 133 million polygons per second, and 4Gpixels/sec fillrate, assuming that Hydra operates at the chip's low-end of 200MHz (higher speed variants are also available, presumably for desktop use). While specs like this are always subject to interpretation, these figures are a ballpark match for the original Xbox.

Thoughts, comments, opinions, speculations?

Sounds like it's going to be a hot little device....seriously...hot.



Seriously though, I'm not nearly as interested in the graphics end as much as I am things like motion sensativity, content delivery method and viability of connectivity. And god help us if we have to deal with any more ridiculous proprietary media format from any other console until the end of time - no more UMD...ever (PSP-Go gives me hope).

I think one of the major travesties in this hardware generation was the lack of online multiplayer support - via some internet matching service as well as peer-to-peer. I can think of a few glowing exceptions - but overall, I found both the DS and PSP to be a total wash on MP gaming. With Wireless-N becoming more available....I don't think it'd be insane to think that online gaming through a handheld is all that far fetched - and good to boot.

And can we please stop focusing on handhelds to be portable media players?? I've got a cell-phone, and I-pod and a PSP that can all play MP3's and movies and games...none of them does all three particularly well - so can we please just make the portable gaming device...a gaming device - and NOT A MOVIE PLAYER/MP3 PLAYER

Here's hoping....cheers

Jack

 

[Mobius1aic]

Interesting on how developers would have to balance graphical tasks with orchestration/AI/physics on such a solution, so Sony could say their handheld is as powerful as the Xbox........assuming you used the graphics capability of all 4 cores. I wonder though if it would have multi-texturing and what about ROPs? But of course it's just a rumor, however it's nice to see evidence of an actual new PSP and not another goddamn hardware revision a la PSP Go.

 

[Mobius1aic]

To be as potentially graphically powerful as the Xbox would be interesting, but the screen will need a bit higher resolution to make it more noticeable. My other concern is will their be TMUs and ROPs? I sure hope to god there is, oh and another analog stick. If there isn't a second analog stick, I will be so pissed.

As for media playback, I hope it's still there, but of course the sheer focus being games.

 

[Sigfried1977]

I'm more worried about controls and battery life. The old PSP is insanely uncomfortable to use.

 

[DuckThor Evil]

To be as potentially graphically powerful as the Xbox would be interesting.

Considering that the first PSP is quite close to the PS2 and was released in 2004, then a PSP2 released in 201X with Xbox1 level of power doesn't seem that interesting or impressive to me.

 

[grandmaster]

Well, PSP isn't quite close to PS2 really is it? Compare Ridge Racers to Ridge Racer 5, GT4 to GT Mobile, Burnout 3 to Burnout Legends in terms of textures, geometry etc, factor in the lower resolution and it's a long way off.

Assuming - conservatively - that iPhone 3GS is a match for PSP then the potential of a quad core version of that part is quite staggering, especially bearing in mind that screen resolution will be kept low on purpose.

 

[DuckThor Evil]

Well, PSP isn't quite close to PS2 really is it? Compare Ridge Racers to Ridge Racer 5, GT4 to GT Mobile, Burnout 3 to Burnout Legends in terms of textures, geometry etc, factor in the lower resolution and it's a long way off.

Assuming - conservatively - that iPhone 3GS is a match for PSP then the potential of a quad core version of that part is quite staggering, especially bearing in mind that screen resolution will be kept low on purpose.

Well yes the PSP isn't really as powerful as the PS2 and I was kind of giving it the free pass on resolution as that don't matter that much, when its' display is so small. PSP resolution on such a small display is quite good compared to PS2 on a big screen. I thought GT mobile looked quite good compared to GT4. Are those other games using the full 333mhz?

Anyways I still think that the comparison to Xbox1 on handheld that is coming in 201X does not sound that impressive. Your Iphone comparison sounds better to me.

 

[Mobius1aic]

Considering that the first PSP is quite close to the PS2 and was released in 2004, then a PSP2 released in 201X with Xbox1 level of power doesn't seem that interesting or impressive to me.

It's taken long enough

What I find more interesting if it is a GPGPU solution that handles all the processing, both graphical and general. Then I'd wonder how much memory would probably be appropriate for such a handheld. I can see it having 256 MB of total memory, appropriate for a machine even twice as powerful as the original Xbox, plus it would be plenty for media functions even at the same time as a game running (simultaneous music playback during game play anyone?). Plus it would be very cool to leave the game in-state, quick "alt-tab" into the web browser to do something, maybe find a walkthrough for the place you're stuck at and go directly back into the game. I always loved that about PCs. I'll get mad when Sony tries to turn it into a phone though.

 

[Ailuros]

Just because a graphics core is capable of GPGPU tasks it doesn't mean it'll replace a CPU entirely in a system. I hope the author understands what exactly SoC (system on chip) stands for.

As for a hypothetical SGX543 MP4 running "hot", the SONY next generation console isn't mostly likely to appear on shelves neither this or the next year. By that time at least 32nm should be mainstream for the embedded markets.

Each 543 core is at 8mm2@65nm * 4 cores = 32mm2@65nm; do the math yourself how much die area such a config would consume under a much smaller manufacturing process and 200MHz is damn conservative for that one either.

Considering that the first PSP is quite close to the PS2 and was released in 2004, then a PSP2 released in 201X with Xbox1 level of power doesn't seem that interesting or impressive to me.

Assuming the next generation PSP has only 4MP cores and not more at 400MHz you could have close to half the XBox360 graphics performance and a higher level of capabilities. If SONY would go for the maximum latency of the MP ie 16 cores (which is unlikely due to die area/power consumption constraints) you'd end with something that could embarass even some of today's performance GPUs.

 

[tangey]

I stuck my neck out back in march/april and said that Sony would realise a new SGX based PSP2, and I'm keeping to the timeframe of Xmas 2010.

 

[wco81]

Doesn't the DS continue to stomp PSP in sales?

What is the evidence for a quasi-console performance in a handheld?

I'm sure PSP will get a boost with the Go and release of games like GT Mobile.

But the market for deep gaming experiences on the go may get crowded out between the big Nintendo franchises on the one end and the simple, casual iPhone games on the other end.

Then of course, the Zune HD story on games has yet to be told.

Crowded field.

 

[Npl]

Doesn't the DS continue to stomp PSP in sales?

What is the evidence for a quasi-console performance in a handheld?

Hypothetically speaking... imagine you could play your "PS3Mobile" at home with controllers and then merely grab it and continue playing somewhere else.

Of course we wont see anything close to PS3 Performance, but something exceeding the Wii capabilities should be easily possible as portable in 1-2 years.

PS. quadcore just sounds ridiculous for a GPU, the only reason to have multiple seperate cores is if the diesize otherwise gets too big, or if its not worth to scale up a monolithic core (which aint the case if the PSP is expected to sell millions).

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Doesn't the DS continue to stomp PSP in sales?...

It's not just a matter of competing with DS, but with every handheld out there, which just keep on coming. Sony need to differentiate if they are to compete in some niche. A high-performance media device would be feature-competitive. The current PSP has TV out. A PSP2 with full HD video out or somesuch would turn it into a unique media-everywhere device. Allow Blue Tooth support for keyboards etc., it becomes a mini plug-in browser etc. so people can browse the web on their HDTV at home and buy content to watch on the go.

A low-spec gaming only machine will likely crash against the mobile phone sector, where those games can thrive in devices people are going to own anyway. I think Sony's best chance is in the high-end, including mobile communication features, and Nintendo will start to feel the squeeze in the low-end (if they go there which is typical of Nintendo philosophy).

 

[wco81]

When the PSP came out, that was the theory, to be more powerful than any other portable device.

That certainly attracted a number of buyers, including those interested in playing downloaded video on it.

But other devices came along with media playback capabilities and it seems the PSP momentum stalls in the absence of blockbuster releases. Last blockbuster was what, probably God of War?

HD video out will be dependent on whether the studios play ball. That's probably why UMD movies originally couldn't be outputted to TVs. They didn't want people to buy UMDs instead of DVDs. They wanted people to buy UMDs in addition to DVDs.

And if the studios allow it for PSP2, you can bet iPhone and other devices will get the same capabilities.

As for PSP2 becoming an extension of home console gaming, well that was supposedly possible on the PSP as well. That is, the carrot for buying both console and PSP versions of games would be that you could play the PSP version during the day and then when you got home, you could sync up your progress to the home console version.

But did any game really do that? Or what about the idea of PS3 preprocessing some content and then downloading that to the PSP? It doesn't seem like these fanciful ideas were ever realized.

The probability is that PSP2 games will be standalone experiences, just as PSP games were -- well other than some PS2 ports or game which were modestly different from the console versions.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

And if the studios allow it for PSP2, you can bet iPhone and other devices will get the same capabilities.

Well, yes, that's competition gfor you. You don't avoid an idea just because you're going to be copied! PS3 has HD download movies already (as I understand it) and certainly Sony have bigger plans for content distribution. A handheld that stores and plays media across devices is a very good idea. At the moment the handhelds are all focussed on remaining handhelds rather than portable CE/AV devices. You put the movies on the handheld to watch on the handheld screen. Sony can extend that.

This is also different from PSP. That was a portable media device, and it had some fans as a result. You only need view previous debate to see many saw buyers of PSP as being more interested in media than games given lacklustre game sales versus a many millions strong install base. Remember, though PSP isn't a DS, it has sold 50 million, which is flippin' good going for a non-Nintendo handheld! Clearly PSP offering a bit of everything was enough of a USP to attract 50 million buyers versus a cheaper portable game platform and the ubiquitous mobile phone. If Sony hadn't have gone with substantial performance, where would PSP be now?

However, now mobile phones are extending into the portable media space, with iPhone catapulting things forward at a rate of knots towards a mini portable computer, Sony are facing competition on that front. They need to compete. High performance is going to be key to that, along with the right software.

What else would you suggest? A mediocre games-only platform that doesn't live up to the PlayStation brand, lacks media features, and lacks the originality of GameBoy and DS? Why will people play games on that instead of on their mobiles? Why will they buy PSP2 instead of the Nintendo DS2? Why pursue a huge media portal dream where Sony sells Sony content to Sony devices if you aren't going to provide the devices that would benefit from it?

 

[wco81]

50 million isn't bad but what has the DS done in the same time? What will the iPhone/iTouch do in that time?

Emphasis on specs is something that appeals to geeks. But the greater number who bought DS and Wii and Apple products demonstrate the limitations of that strategy.

Certainly there already are PMPs which are meant to be repositories not just for mobile media but home media as well, such as the Archos.

But more than the hardware, they need a content strategy. What would it be about the PSP2 content which makes it compelling? Another digital media download infrastructure isn't going to do it. Sony had problems in the DAP market because people hated their software and the store and their attempt to push ATRAC over more widely-used codecs.

They still make Walkman players and now eBook readers but I heard the experience for loading content is still as horrible as ever. Will the PSP2 use PSN and a more streamlined interface/experience for getting content?

Will they have exclusive content which will sell the hardware? More importantly, is there still demand for deep, console-like games on a portable device which people will carry in addition to phones?