PS4 Pro Speculation (PS4K NEO Kaio-Ken-Kutaragi-Kaz Neo-san)

Discussion in 'Console Industry' started by mpg1, Mar 19, 2016.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. DuckThor Evil

    Legend Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2004
    Messages:
    5,961
    Likes Received:
    1,020
    Location:
    Finland
    I think so too. It should allow PSVR games to be rendered in far higher resolution and perhaps regular 1080p games like Uncharted 4 at 60fps. I think it's unlikely we'll see major asset quality or complexity changes between the base PS4 and the 4k versions.
     
  2. kalelovil

    Regular

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2011
    Messages:
    567
    Likes Received:
    102
    The mild CPU upgrade is disappointing.
    I was hoping for Zen, so that future cross-platform PC-PS4Neo titles would no longer be designed around the performance limitations of ~2Ghz tablet-targeted Cpu cores.
    I'm surprised they still stuck to Jaguar given it was a common topic of criticism from Ubisoft, SOE, and other developers.

    I guess Sony (understandably) really want to avoid having PS4Neo titles which won't run on the base PS4.
     
  3. Prophecy2k

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2007
    Messages:
    2,468
    Likes Received:
    379
    Location:
    The land that time forgot
    This sounds like the right way to position the device as far as I'm concerned.
    The major take-home is that PS4k ISNT PS5.... It's not a generational transition, nor is it a sign they are moving to more frequent iterative upgrades with foward compatibility. Provided this rumour is true of course, it assuages all my fears.

    It's more than likely that PS5 will release in two to three years time and be the best that Sony can fit within their silicon/TDP budget. Thus I have no problem with a suped-up PS4 as an alternative option for power buyers. Plus, it seems Sony is actively looking to ensure the gaming experience for regular PS4 owners is not degraded or devalued in anyway. I applaud them for that.

    They should price PS4k as a real premium piece of kit and make bank on the high margins. I'm def going to buy the sh!t outta the thing.
     
  4. fellix

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2004
    Messages:
    3,537
    Likes Received:
    496
    Location:
    Varna, Bulgaria
    Well, the focus is clearly on the graphics throughput for this upgrade. But 31% percent CPU clock boost is a nice performance bonus, anyway, for not bothering with new architecture.
     
  5. DieH@rd

    Legend Veteran

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2006
    Messages:
    6,348
    Likes Received:
    2,352
    This is great HW combo for a console that will sell for $399, with some concessions given to make console fully compatible with original PS4 hardware [sticking with the same CPU]. A GTX970-level GPU in a fixed console box! :) I can't wait to play Horizon on it.

    Hot having Neo-exclusive games is a good thing, not having Neo-exclusive gameplay/content is also a good thing. Sony is marketing this as a mid-gen upgrade that will not damage existing PS4 users, which is IMO a good thing.

    PSVR currently runs great on PS4, and it will run even better on PS4K. I wonder if good adoption of PS4K will push Sony into releasing PSVRv2 in late 2017 with 1440p screen.
     
    temesgen and Prophecy2k like this.
  6. fellix

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2004
    Messages:
    3,537
    Likes Received:
    496
    Location:
    Varna, Bulgaria
  7. Love_In_Rio

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2004
    Messages:
    1,627
    Likes Received:
    226
    In five years they could launch PS5 and instruct to make a PS4 base version at 720p. Playing with resolution gives much game.
     
  8. Shifty Geezer

    Shifty Geezer uber-Troll!
    Moderator Legend

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2004
    Messages:
    43,576
    Likes Received:
    16,034
    Location:
    Under my bridge
    This isn't really an issue. That is, I think it's one of those issues that the brain identifies when it's really thinking, but isn't based in anything tangible and will be overlooked in use even by you.

    When you play a game, does it bother you if it isn't maxxing out your hardware? Do you refuse to buy indie games, or play mobile games, that aren't using 95% of hardware cycles constantly with the fan ramped up full? Has it ever occured to you that you weren't getting your money's worth on such games? Or do you just play? What about your Smart TV. Do you refuse to buy one because most of the time those 4 cores will be doing nothing? And you refuse to buy the latest mobile device because no-one's targeting it, right? So you won't buy an iPad Air 2 to replace your aging iPad 3 because no games use its substantially greater power as they all target the iPad 3+ install base.

    The internals are basically irrelevant. You pay for a product to serve a purpose. PS4K will be a PS4 with better IQ/framerate, and if it does that job at the price people want to pay, it really doesn't matter what it has inside. The engineering should be finding the minimum hardware to enable that. BW for me seems the biggest concern.

    And for all we know, when PS5 comes out maybe PS4k will play PS5 games in lower quality! :runaway:
     
    DSoup and Shortbread like this.
  9. Globalisateur

    Globalisateur Globby
    Veteran Regular Subscriber

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2013
    Messages:
    4,385
    Likes Received:
    3,253
    Location:
    France
    Yes but PS4 GPU has to deal with some important bandwidth contention with the CPU, unlike PC.

    That was exactly what I was expecting: Mandatory cross compatibility between both models.

    Disappointed about the mild CPU overclock (if true). Expecting a much higher one.

    The GPU would be ~4.2 Tflops.
     
    #569 Globalisateur, Apr 19, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2016
  10. hesido

    Regular

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2004
    Messages:
    553
    Likes Received:
    85
    I don't like this. It defies what consoles meant to me. Sure, there's always room for improvement. But I don't want to end up getting caught in the iterative upgrade cycle. Jumping ship by the start of PS5 gen.
     
  11. Shifty Geezer

    Shifty Geezer uber-Troll!
    Moderator Legend

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2004
    Messages:
    43,576
    Likes Received:
    16,034
    Location:
    Under my bridge
    Then choose not to. You don't have to buy the latest phone/TV/car/washing machine/sewing machine/digital piano/GPU/... whenever it's released. Your existing phone/TV/car/washing machine/sewing machine/digital piano/GPU/... doesn't decrease in quality when a new model comes out, and still serves the purpose for which you bought it to the same standard it was managing the day before the new release.
     
    Shortbread and kalelovil like this.
  12. Love_In_Rio

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2004
    Messages:
    1,627
    Likes Received:
    226
    a 5 watts cpu is so disappointing in this moment... and Iphone 6s will have a far better CPU than the new shiny Neo console that would be even more CPU limited that before. Besides this doesn´t fit with wanting better frame rates for PSVR.

    If Ms goes all in with the ZEN, HBM and all the sauces (as per Phil Spencer last claims could be thought) there will be a lot of "hardcores" jumping ships, me the first.
     
  13. goonergaz

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2005
    Messages:
    4,446
    Likes Received:
    1,664
    Why? People can upgrade and those with a PS4K will be paying a premium. This is no different to when the latest GPU comes out on PC...the only reason people will get upset is if a game is really bad on PS4 but it looks like Sony are trying to stop that from happening.

    Like shifty says, you don't have to. All games will work on both anyway.

    From my PoV I'm a little sad the CPU (which is already a weak spot) isn't getting a better upgradebut give me this and the new RDR

    [​IMG]
     
    DSoup likes this.
  14. Jupiter

    Veteran Newcomer

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2015
    Messages:
    1,559
    Likes Received:
    1,153
    This would be an unbalanced system. Like a bad PC (Titan X with underclocket Dualcore). Haha

    The CPU was already a bottleneck before.
     
  15. hesido

    Regular

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2004
    Messages:
    553
    Likes Received:
    85
    And I don't buy the latest phone / TV / Car etc. etc. I don't game on my phone, so as long as it can load beyond3d and let me talk, it's fine. Unless Beyond3d begins targeting the latest Samsung Galaxy S8, I'm fine. The roads I drive and the maximum speed I can go on a road hasn't changed in the last 5 years I bought my car so I'm planning to keep it. My sewing machine is compatible with the latest threads, although it's single threaded, it sews just fine. A console is also not subject to the wear and tear of a phone. Last time I upgraded my phone was when my replacement battery began to die so quickly, and it's microusb was damaged so I couldn't properly exchange stuff between my PC and the phone. My current phone's headphone jack is damaged, I replaced the screen that cracked, its vibration function is not working. I'm planning to keep it as long as it works.

    Updating wasn't something to worry about on a console this many years into the Console's life. Now, there's that option. And I worry about that option and have to judge how much better a game runs on the PS4K before I shell out that money.

    And to think that existence of such a product does not affect my experience on the original PS4 is at best wishful thinking. Devs will target 60fps on the PS4K, 30fps on the PS4. It's much easier for them this way, instead of getting the PS4 version to run at 60, now they can make beautiful-screenshot games looking exactly the same on the PS4 and PS4K; only 30fps on the PS4, but hey, perfectly playable, and yes, 60fps on the PS4K. Devs now how that option, and they will take that option, leaving me with my 30fps games.
     
    #575 hesido, Apr 19, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2016
  16. Love_In_Rio

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2004
    Messages:
    1,627
    Likes Received:
    226
    Think about it for a second: It would be a system in which an Iphone 6s CPU addition would make it more powerful...
     
  17. London Geezer

    Legend Subscriber

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2002
    Messages:
    23,836
    Likes Received:
    9,811
  18. Prophecy2k

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2007
    Messages:
    2,468
    Likes Received:
    379
    Location:
    The land that time forgot
    CPU BW on PS4 is 20GB/s max.

    4.2 / 3.9 x 184 = 198 GB/s simply scaling the R9 380x.

    Add 20 GB/s for the CPU and that gives the rumoured 218 GB/s BW.

    Not sure how the GPU will be anymore BW starved than the R9 380x then...?
     
  19. ToTTenTranz

    Legend Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2008
    Messages:
    12,752
    Likes Received:
    7,763
    Plus, Liverpool has the CPU limited to 20GB/s. Even if this number is increased for the new CPU with higher clocks, say 24GB/s, the new GPU gets 194GB/s for itself with 4.2 TFLOPs. This is very close to Tonga's bandwidth/compute.
     
  20. itsmydamnation

    Veteran Regular

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2007
    Messages:
    1,340
    Likes Received:
    462
    Location:
    Australia
    so what would you go with , remember 128/128 L/S a core, 8 cores, 2 128bit avx units a core maybe 25watt TDP and about 50 odd mm2sq
    you need throughput as well as robust execution.
     
Loading...
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Beyond3D has been around for over a decade and prides itself on being the best place on the web for in-depth, technically-driven discussion and analysis of 3D graphics hardware. If you love pixels and transistors, you've come to the right place!

    Beyond3D is proudly published by GPU Tools Ltd.
Loading...