ps2 - overhyped on this board?

[sergio_r]

Basiclly, I get the general feeling from a number of posters of this board that the ps2 is a good piece of hardware, when compared to the xbox and gc.
The simple truth is obvioius isnt it? The only reason that some ps2 games look acceptable is because of the thousands of man hours that have been put into hacking the system and the incredable artwork and game direction. Developers seem to use a mirriad if tricks to disguise the fact that, its a weak machine. If its all the same to you, Id rather not chose a console that seems to host more than its fair share of games which display shimmering flcikering, basic, textures. Muddy, washed out visuals and Slowdown. Infact, Id guess that the ps2 is holding back the industry with its alein design. And as for people saying the ps2 has room to grow and thats the reason for its weird design, Id say, bollocks. Its still rubbish. But then, I cant prove you wrong cos the future hasnt happened yet, how convienient.

Ill take halo 2 thanks

Hows that for flamebait!

 

[Johnny Awesome]

I'm going to do the unthinkable and defend the PS2 here (someone please pick Vince up off the floor).

The PS2 has been able to stay competitive visually on standard NTSC televisions. Good polygon throughput, a powerful and flexible CPU, and a massive amount of front-end fillrate has allowed clever programmers and artists to get decent visuals out of a good many titles.

ICO, Metal Gear Solid 2, Final Fantasy X (to a lesser extent), Sly Cooper, and GT3 are all really nice looking games. There are some nice ones like Zone of the Enders 2 and Silent Hill 3 that are pretty impressive as well.

If you stick to Sony, Konami, and to lesser extent Capcom and Namco, then you end up getting some decent NTSC visuals. The lack of progressive scan support hurts the PS2's image quality when viewed through high-end hardware, but it's not really a huge issue.

I think 2003 and 2004 will be difficult years for the PS2 to compete with Xbox visually though, but I'm sure there will still be some surprises on PS2 as well.

 

[marconelly!]

If there is one board where PS2 is NOT overhyped, it's here That, of course, does not include platform specific boards. I have no clue just how you end up with such an impression.

 

[Logan Leonhart]

From my thread most likely. He´s apparently a PS2 hater too, so the behavior doesn´t surprise me.

 

[CaptainHowdy]

basically what I am seeing, anyone who does not see things your way is a HATER, or has Bias..
I have a PS2, I play it, I love many of the games.
but cold hard fact, the hardware sucks, deal with that.
the reason the games on XBox and GC dont look all that much better, is because your looking at multiplatform games, the PS2 is whats holding the evolution of graphics down bigtime.

 

[LogisticX]

basically what I am seeing, anyone who does not see things your way is a HATER, or has Bias..
I have a PS2, I play it, I love many of the games.
but cold hard fact, the hardware sucks, deal with that.
the reason the games on XBox and GC dont look all that much better, is because your looking at multiplatform games, the PS2 is whats holding the evolution of graphics down bigtime.

It's a never ending cycle isn't it? I mean, before Xbox and GC were released they were supposed to "murder" the PS2 upon entry....that hasn't happened at all.

As for PS2 holding the evolution of graphics?

Ok, let's take a step away from PORTS and look at game exclusives... on Nintendo you have heavy hitters like Rogue Leader and SFA and the soon to be released Metroid.... on Xbox there's Wreckless, Halo, DOA3 and the like. On PS2 game exclusives like Ratchet and Clank, MGS2 (former exclusive I should say, but still a title that utilized the PS2 so well that it made porting to Xbox difficult), Sly Cooper, Gran Turismo 3, Burnout 2, Baldurs Gate DA (again not exclusive anymore, but very nice looking) etc.


In any event, what exactly is the PS2 doing to hold the exclusive titles back?

 

[-tkf-]

He, i would say the X-Box is overated.

Online gaming? PS2 had it first and they wont even launch X-Box Live in every country where they sell the machine.

Harddrive? All the warez people thank their gods they can play the pirat games directly from the HD

HDTV? Yeah, supported by about 0.1% outside the USA

3x times the performance? nah more like 3x times the size and weight.

X-Box is the choice for PC nerds not for gamers.

 

[ChryZ]

Taken from the book "Opening the Xbox" by Dean Takahashi:
(http://www.gamers.com/feature/openxbox/index.jsp)

[...]the Xbox would capitalize on Windows assets for its operating system. It would try to harness the enthusiasm of game developers and rely on existing technology. PC makers would launch the box in the fall of 2000 with a PC microprocessor, graphics from either Nvidia or 3Dfx, a network connection, a DVD player, 64 megabytes of dynamic random access memory, and, most controversial of all, a hard disk drive. The box would run PC games and Xbox games. The machine's graphics would process about 50 million polygons per second, which was less than the PS 2. But it would also be updated every two years, giving it a chance to leapfrog the PS 2 and take advantage of new graphics technology.[...]

In the end I would say, the PS2 raised the bar and forced Mircosoft to come up with something better. Holding the industry back,eh? This fierce competion will deliver some bleeding edge hardware in form of PS3, XBOX2 and hopefully GC2.

 

[archie4oz]

HDTV? Yeah, supported by about 0.1% outside the USA

Actually depending on what region you're talking about, HDTV in many places is more prolific than in the US...

 

[-tkf-]

HDTV? Yeah, supported by about 0.1% outside the USA

Actually depending on what region you're talking about, HDTV in many places is more prolific than in the US...

Interesting? i can only think of Japan. Europe is a HDTV wasteland

 

[wazoo]

HDTV? Yeah, supported by about 0.1% outside the USA

Actually depending on what region you're talking about, HDTV in many places is more prolific than in the US...

Interesting? i can only think of Japan. Europe is a HDTV wasteland

pretty much. HDTV support was even removed from the GC features in Europe.

 

[sergio_r]

nahhhhh

Dont get me wrong . I dont hate the ps2 at all. I understand that *some* aspects of the hardware are really good. Its just the textures, will they ever get any better?

 

[wazoo]

Re: nahhhhh

Dont get me wrong . I dont hate the ps2 at all. I understand that *some* aspects of the hardware are really good. Its just the textures, will they ever get any better?

They are getting better in SOME games. If you expect all future ps2 games to exhibit glorious textures without any effort; then no.

Anyway, I'm not an xbox specialist, but on the GC front I've seen much better results concerning textures.

 

[LogisticX]

I don't know about that.....Enclave is a pretty damn impressive game, although its only running at 30 fps.

Anyway, as for asking if textures will ever get better....well, it's not like EVERY Xbox and EVERY GC game displays the pinnacle of their texture rendering capabilities do they?

 

[wazoo]

I don't know about that.....Enclave is a pretty damn impressive game, although its only running at 30 fps.

30fps is fine. I would not go from 30 60fps if it does imply a reduction in graphics quality. I would not go from 60 to 30fps either, unless the dev proves that it means better graphics

Anyway, as for asking if textures will ever get better....well, it's not like EVERY Xbox and EVERY GC game displays the pinnacle of their texture rendering capabilities do they?

Are you refering to the fact that for some xbox/GC fanboys, every xbox/GC game looks better than any ps2 game ? In that case, I agree with you. Most games are multiplaform and do approx. look the same
on every platform. That is what is saving Sony in the end.

 

[zidane1strife]

And as for people saying the ps2 has room to grow and thats the reason for its weird design, Id say, bollocks.

The people that said and continue to say the ps2 has room to grow are based on the fact that many dev.s have expressed this same view...

Also if u look at the games... from the launch titles, to games like Two towers, Burnout 2... and in the near future Zoe2 and SH3.... u can see the ps2 still has had and appears to have room to grow...

 

[CaptainHowdy]

basically what I am seeing, anyone who does not see things your way is a HATER, or has Bias..
I have a PS2, I play it, I love many of the games.
but cold hard fact, the hardware sucks, deal with that.
the reason the games on XBox and GC dont look all that much better, is because your looking at multiplatform games, the PS2 is whats holding the evolution of graphics down bigtime.

It's a never ending cycle isn't it? I mean, before Xbox and GC were released they were supposed to "murder" the PS2 upon entry....that hasn't happened at all.

As for PS2 holding the evolution of graphics?

Ok, let's take a step away from PORTS and look at game exclusives... on Nintendo you have heavy hitters like Rogue Leader and SFA and the soon to be released Metroid.... on Xbox there's Wreckless, Halo, DOA3 and the like. On PS2 game exclusives like Ratchet and Clank, MGS2 (former exclusive I should say, but still a title that utilized the PS2 so well that it made porting to Xbox difficult), Sly Cooper, Gran Turismo 3, Burnout 2, Baldurs Gate DA (again not exclusive anymore, but very nice looking) etc.


In any event, what exactly is the PS2 doing to hold the exclusive titles back?

hold on now, we are talking about console power, you talking how good games are, as I said PS2 has great games, but if it were not overhyped, those games would be going to a better piece of hardware.

whether you want to admit it or not, priority goes to PS2, because MORONS bought it, if you bought PS2 THIS year, it was a smart buy, if you bought it on launch, you bought it for nothing else but the sony name..because there sure as hell was not a game to be found worth playing on the system for almost a year, and now you people have the gall to rag on the cube and Xbox for not having as many games? well, they have more AAA titles in thier first year than the PS2 did at this point in its life..

and there is NOT a single game on the PS2 that can touch Rogue leader in graphics(it would have to magically provide bump mapping to do so).

the producer of Resident Evil while explaining his move to the gamecube,came right flat out and said the move was a technical reason, because PS2 could not handle the game, the Xbox could have done it better than the cube but he passed on it because its doing poorly in Japan.

PS2 is holding graphics down, because it gets priority, games coming out lack any technical features that make the Xbox and GC stand out above the crowd, because the PS2 has none.

 

[zidane1strife]

whether you want to admit it or not, priority goes to PS2, because MORONS bought it

I think what LogisticX means is not that ps2 has more games, but that bungie, nintendo, and many other exclusive dev. do prioritize their respective consoles... and have not come with something that makes u say... boy ps2 looks like atari compared to this...

the producer of Resident Evil while explaining his move to the gamecube,came right flat out and said the move was a technical reason

Resident evil runs at 30fps and has prerendered backgrounds... when ps2 gets a similar game from a decent dev.(not one that once thought u couldn't get better gphx than DC code veronica out of the ps2....), i'm sure it will be comparable... that is to say it won't lag behind too mush on the 3d side....

PS: technically ps2 is more suited for prerendered esque games than gamecube... the larger media, and the mpeg, etc features... allows for far more backgrounds to be present, and for less artifacts on them... **cough**RE remake ** cough**

 

[wazoo]

Resident evil runs at 30fps and has prerendered backgrounds... when ps2 gets a similar game from a decent dev.(not one that once thought u couldn't get better gphx than DC code veronica out of the ps2....), i'm sure it will be comparable... that is to say it won't lag behind too mush on the 3d side....

Onimusha2 ???

 

[maskrider]

hold on now, we are talking about console power, you talking how good games are, as I said PS2 has great games, but if it were not overhyped, those games would be going to a better piece of hardware.

It has something called "major market share", not overhype or what.

whether you want to admit it or not, priority goes to PS2, because MORONS bought it, if you bought PS2 THIS year, it was a smart buy, if you bought it on launch, you bought it for nothing else but the sony name..because there sure as hell was not a game to be found worth playing on the system for almost a year, and now you people have the gall to rag on the cube and Xbox for not having as many games? well, they have more AAA titles in thier first year than the PS2 did at this point in its life..

It is kind of interesting that from your words, people cannot like the launch titles and cannot get the PS2 to replace a broken PSX, you are calling them "MORONS", and I will definitely be a "MORON" from your words as I have bought almost every current generation console (X-BOX for DOA3, GC for SMS, PS2 for DOA2) around the launch time, and I have bought another PS2 (Ocean Blue) just because I think it looks cool.

and there is NOT a single game on the PS2 that can touch Rogue leader in graphics(it would have to magically provide bump mapping to do so).

the producer of Resident Evil while explaining his move to the gamecube,came right flat out and said the move was a technical reason, because PS2 could not handle the game, the Xbox could have done it better than the cube but he passed on it because its doing poorly in Japan.

PS2 is holding graphics down, because it gets priority, games coming out lack any technical features that make the Xbox and GC stand out above the crowd, because the PS2 has none.

Like it or not, it is the fact that it has the "major market share", to say it is holding graphics down is like saying MS is holding reliability down for not adopting Unix as the kernel. It is not PS2 that is holding back the world, it is the world held back itself as the developers are not going to leave profits behind and leave the PS2.

And at the time when there was only PS2 and DC, are you going to tell them to not release a game until a more powerful console came out ?

It looks just like someone telling his/her friend to wait until the next more power CPU from Intel/AMD, the wait can be eternal as there will always be a next one.

I am not in for a fight, just an expression of my opinion.