PowerVR-Based Systems Compare/Contrast

L

Lazy8s

Veteran
Series2 part @ 100-MHz, 8-MB + SH4 @ 200-MHz, 16-MB = Dreamcast/Atomiswave

Series2 part @ 100-MHz, 16-MB + SH4 @ 200-MHz, 32-MB = NAOMI

Series2 part + 2xSH4 @ 200-MHz = Gaelco Arcade (used for Smashing Drive)

Undisclosed Configuration of Series2 = Hikaru

2xSeries2 parts @ 100-MHz, 2x32-MB + Elan @ 100-MHz, 32-MB + SH4 @ 200-MHz, 32-MB = NAOMI2

(~Series3) MBX ?Lite? @ 150-MHz + SH4 @ 300-MHz = Aurora

How much more geometry could NAOMI's extra memory reasonably afford it compared to Dreamcast/Atomiswave, assuming the developer tried hypothetically?

Realistically, what kind of tangible advantages would the extra SH4 in Gaelco's arcade hardware give it versus NAOMI/Dreamcast/Atomiswave?

Hikaru?

Was there any more display list storage limitation left in NAOMI to be benefitted by the extra graphics memory per chip in the NAOMI2 for more geometry? Did Elan provide other extra functionality beyond proper DOT3 set-up and operating transparently in backwards compatibility mode?

How faithfully could SH3707 reproduce NAOMI2 games?
 
(more)

Aristocrat's Series2 XCEED platform: what kind of configuration?

R-Cade Vision 250 for the ArcadePC initiative: did this get completed, and how different was it from Neon 250?
 
I was reading it before, and I got the impression of one pixel per clock. I had thought that would be MBX Lite as MBX seemed to do 2 pixels.
 
(~Series3) MBX ?Lite? @ 150-MHz + SH4 @ 300-MHz = Aurora
Click to expand...

I've never heard of Aurora until now, interesting. I'd like to more about it.


I'd also like to find out about a much older PowerVR based system, one that never made it out. it was probably the most ambitious PowerVR based system of the 1990s. Namco's System 33 board (it might have gone by a different name or codename, i don't know) that used 4x PowerVR Series 1 and a MIPS CPU. polygon performance would've been 1 ~ 2 million polygons/s

a.) originally, PowerVR Series 1 was meant to be scalable (and I assume it really was) with 4 chips providing 1 million sustained texture mapped, shaded, lit, filtered, mip-mapped polygons per second

b.) Namco's System 33 was said to be capable of 2 million polygons per second (probably peak performance).. using 4 PowerVR Series 1 chips (PCX1, PCX2, or maybe just 4 Image Synthesis Processors).

I suppose that the roughly 500,000 polygons/sec peak performance of PowerVR Series 1 and the roughly 250,000 polygons/sec sustained performance would account for the 1 ~ 2 million polygon/sec Namco board, which would have provided Namco with a true sucessor to their highend System 22 and Super System 22 boards, and therefore, no need to continue with smaller more incremental advances like the System 23 and Super System 23.




I am sure Simon and Lazy8s remembers hearing of this, and maybe Simon knows more, even if he wasnt involved in that project with Namco.


:)
 
Series2 part + 2xSH4 @ 200-MHz = Gaelco Arcade (used for Smashing Drive)
Click to expand...

Are you sure? Because not only did this game look like complete crap, but it came out way before dreamcast, or at least I think it did. I thought it used some custom hardware that was only designed to best the n64 and not the dreamcast?

Undisclosed Configuration of Series2 = Hikaru
Click to expand...
I've seen sources that say it was a higher clocked version, or custom hardware designed by sega.
 
I wonder if they have a next gen elan chip ? That would be nice for the arcades as if i recal right the elan was a beast for sustained lights and polygons
 
Fox5 said:
Are you sure? Because not only did this game look like complete crap, but it came out way before dreamcast, or at least I think it did. I thought it used some custom hardware that was only designed to best the n64 and not the dreamcast?
Click to expand...
I agree Smashing Drive looked like a huge pile of crap graphically.
It was release after the DC, though, I also remember that it was supposed to be release on GC (Around GC launch).

here's a link to some pic of the game:
http://www.system16.com/other/hrdw_gaelco3d.html

Smashing Drive
2001
CPU : 2 x Hitachi SH4 @ 200MHz (64 bit)
Graphics : Videologic PMX1LC
 
Smashing Drive had a cube port, it looked bad and I think even had framerate problems.

Also, did Smashing Drive in the arcade use Series 1 or Series 2?
 
As just reaffirmed, here's official documentation:
Gaelco's new arcade games for 2001, including Smashing Drive which debuts at ATEI, utilize cutting edge arcade boards based around two Hitachi SH4 CPUs and a dedicated PowerVR Series2 graphics processor from NEC, designed by PowerVR Technologies...

...Smashing Drive is a high-impact driving game themed on a taxi drive through New York City and is expected to be available in Europe in March 2001.
Click to expand...
http://www.powervr.com/News/Release/index.asp?ID=7

Perhaps the confusion results from an issue that came up when Smashing Drive got unveiled. Because of its similarity to the already established Crazy Taxi, criticism for being a rip-off prompted Smashing Drive's producers to reveal that their game had actually started development years earlier, prior to Craxy Taxi being unveiled.
 
Hmm, maybe smashing drive was developed for older arcade hardware and just ported to Naomi-ish hardware?
But why would it use two SH-4s then? Well, maybe if it was originally going to use a more powerful cpu.....maybe the dual smashing drive arcade cabinents had a seperate cpu for each, but a shared gpu?
 
It very well may have started on older arcade hardware.

Gaelco custom designs some of their own arcade systems. Since they were designing that latest system with their own configuration after NAOMI, it made sense to one-up the existing SEGA board.
 
Megadrive1988:
I've never heard of Aurora until now, interesting. I'd like to more about it.
Click to expand...
There's a short rundown of information near the end of the SEGA 2010 thread.
I'd also like to find out about a much older PowerVR based system,
Click to expand...
I do remember that time. Namco was even eventually planning for a multiplatform strategy with optimized ports/conversions of their best arcade games, like the Ridge Racer series, to PowerVR equipped PCs. And Kalisto also had the nice looking Ultim@te Race title.
 
Simon F said:
Lazy8s said:
(~Series3) MBX ?Lite? @ 150-MHz + SH4 @ 300-MHz = Aurora
Click to expand...

Read the Renasas presentation on the CE Linux Forum
Click to expand...
The files there state MBX - however the fill rate seems far too low, unless the fillrates listed elsewhere are "effective", raw fill rate multiplied by some constant representing overdraw.

Could it perhaps be a custom MBX with fewer pixel pipelines? Perhaps they thought increasing fill rate excessive at mobile resolutions?
 
Megadrive1988 said:
(~Series3) MBX ?Lite? @ 150-MHz + SH4 @ 300-MHz = Aurora
Click to expand...

I've never heard of Aurora until now, interesting. I'd like to more about it.


I'd also like to find out about a much older PowerVR based system, one that never made it out. it was probably the most ambitious PowerVR based system of the 1990s. Namco's System 33 board (it might have gone by a different name or codename, i don't know) that used 4x PowerVR Series 1 and a MIPS CPU. polygon performance would've been 1 ~ 2 million polygons/s
Click to expand...
Oh that beast. Yes I was involved in that project and, in fact, I have one of those boards gathering dust in a cupboard here. It also had 3 slots which could each take another MIPS 5000 on a small daughter card. That was back in the days when the HSR/Visibility part of the system (ISP) was in a separate chip (Sabre) to the texturing and shading (TSP) chip (Texas).
 
(~Series3) MBX ?Lite?
Click to expand...

Albeit MBX is capable of only dual multitexturing, it goes in way too many departments past Series3 functionalities to suggest an entire design from ground up (obviously fine-tuned for estimated PDA/mobile needs), IMHO at least ;)
 
Right, it's a custom PowerVR design for mobile utilizing the strengths of their rendering approach, and the extra programmability there makes for a more unique designation than what I generalized.
 
Simon F said:
Megadrive1988 said:
(~Series3) MBX ?Lite? @ 150-MHz + SH4 @ 300-MHz = Aurora
Click to expand...

I've never heard of Aurora until now, interesting. I'd like to more about it.


I'd also like to find out about a much older PowerVR based system, one that never made it out. it was probably the most ambitious PowerVR based system of the 1990s. Namco's System 33 board (it might have gone by a different name or codename, i don't know) that used 4x PowerVR Series 1 and a MIPS CPU. polygon performance would've been 1 ~ 2 million polygons/s
Click to expand...

Oh that beast. Yes I was involved in that project and, in fact, I have one of those boards gathering dust in a cupboard here. It also had 3 slots which could each take another MIPS 5000 on a small daughter card. That was back in the days when the HSR/Visibility part of the system (ISP) was in a separate chip (Sabre) to the texturing and shading (TSP) chip (Texas).
Click to expand...

whoa, good to hear about this Simon F.

many moons ago, in the late 1990s, I was very interested in that beast. It is my understanding that this project (as far as Namco was concerned) was intended to rival and even surpass Sega's Lockheed Martin Real3D powered Model 3 board. is that your understanding as well? System 33 with multipul PowerVR chips would have been Namco's direct competitor to the multi GPU Model 3, and intended as a replacement to the aging System 22 and S22 variants.

the System 22 and S22 variant was only able to effectively rival Sega's Model 2 and its variants.

In the end, Namco only produced one more set of highend boards, the System 23 line, which were really only dramatically upgraded System 22 boards, AFAIK.

the entire System 22/23 line used graphics technology from Evans & Sutherland, or, if not actual hardware, had some assistance from E&S in APIs, tools, and whatnot. Although I do believe they actually had E&S chips just like Model 2 had chips from Martin Marietta and Model 3 had chips from Lockheed Real3D....

After the System 33 project never came into commercial / arcade use, Namco simply relied on their aging System 22 (now System 23) boards, and also seemed to shift strategy, using upgraded lowcost boards like System 12 (for Tekken 3) to provide profits and get their games into many arcades as affordably as possible. this seemed to prove a good strategy for Namco. whereas Sega's Model 3 boards and Virtua Fighter 3 were pretty much a failure for Sega in the U.S., Namco's Tekken 3 powered by the lowcost System 12 was a huge sucess.

I doubt this would've been the case if Tekken 3 had been powered by System 33 with many chips. (although I wouldve loved to have seen that). ....... Namco simply held out until the Playstation2 technology arrived, in the form of System 246 board.

Anyway, it wouldve been facinating to see PowerVR Series 1
(or pre-Series1 with seperate ISPs and TSPs) in arcades......
 
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