Post your breaking NV30 news links here!

Discussion in 'Architecture and Products' started by pocketmoon_, Nov 18, 2002.

  1. pocketmoon_

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2002
    Messages:
    117
    Likes Received:
    0
  2. Evildeus

    Veteran

    Joined:
    May 24, 2002
    Messages:
    2,657
    Likes Received:
    2
  3. maskrider

    maskrider Henshin !
    Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2002
    Messages:
    1,279
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Hong Kong
    At US$499, it may have 256MB on board.
     
  4. RussSchultz

    RussSchultz Professional Malcontent
    Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2002
    Messages:
    2,855
    Likes Received:
    55
    Location:
    HTTP 404
    The fact that it requires flip chip packaging may suggest that it has a 256 pin external memory bus.
     
  5. Grall

    Grall Invisible Member
    Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2002
    Messages:
    10,801
    Likes Received:
    2,175
    Location:
    La-la land
    Russ,

    There are other reasons you may want to use FC packaging instead than just higher pin count. For example, thermal dissipation is better for FC than the older style used previously. You're also no longer restricted to only having solder pads at the edges of the chip like with older technology, you can have them wherever they may be needed. Clock signal, power and ground distribution is probably rather critical in a 500MHz (unconfirmed?), 125 million transistor chip, so that would probably be a good reason in itself to go to a FC package. You can add clock, power and ground wherever it is needed, plus you don't need to route I/O all the way out to the edge to the chip either. Probably makes things easier when designing it.

    *G*
     
  6. Sabastian

    Regular

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2002
    Messages:
    991
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Canada
    That is a good point... but I would suggest that on the same hand it will limit, as it does in the Radeon 9700s case, how low the price of the card will drop as a result of a more expensive PCB. I have been wondering about the design of the Radeon 9700 PCB it seems that it is well designed. Consider the size of the card (relatively small compared to even the Geforce 4 family.) itself and you can conclude that the PCB design was intended to be made as cheaply/efficiently as possible and still retain the needed 256 bus. If you look at the samples provided by nvidia in their video you can see how the NV30 PCB looks considerably more complex.. this could only result in a more expensive PCB? Correct me if I am wrong here.(This of course assumes that the cards we witnessed in the video were actually NV30 reference cards.)

    Indeed if the NV30 does use a 256bit bus with a core running @ 500mhz on the .13micron process and utilizing DDRII Nvidia will likely hold the performance crown with this monster for some time..... but what of ATIs potential response to this product? I doubt very much that ATi would manage an over clock of the R300 core to anywhere near 500mhz so it may be that there is no response to the NV30 using 256bit bus at all..
     
  7. SlmDnk

    Regular

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2002
    Messages:
    677
    Likes Received:
    477
  8. jb

    jb
    Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2002
    Messages:
    1,636
    Likes Received:
    7

    Cost. Just like they did when the GF4 came out with their 8500 style cards. They will drop the price. Currently I dont believe the volumes are there yet to mass produce the NV30 on .13u products to lower the cost of the core. Sure someday (maybe soon) they will. But today I doubt it. They probably both then will have the same complexity of PCB (10 layer) since they are both use 256 in this setup. Thus the NV30 will have higher cost factors since they will be using DDR2 which is a bit more costly than DDR.....
     
  9. pocketmoon_

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2002
    Messages:
    117
    Likes Received:
    0
    " It's also the first chip to combine the efforts of nVidia and former employees of 3dfx"

    and a picture of the fairy from the videos :)
     
  10. Laa-Yosh

    Laa-Yosh I can has custom title?
    Legend Subscriber

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2002
    Messages:
    9,568
    Likes Received:
    1,455
    Location:
    Budapest, Hungary
    NV30 has a 128 bit memory bus.
     
  11. pocketmoon_

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2002
    Messages:
    117
    Likes Received:
    0
    Do we get a link ?
     
  12. Nappe1

    Nappe1 lp0 On Fire!
    Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2002
    Messages:
    1,532
    Likes Received:
    11
    Location:
    South east finland
    I doubt that NV30 would have 256Bit bus. They have so many times stated that it's not for them yet.

    IMO, with DDR-II running on 500MHz (DDR1000) with brand new HSR tech and good Memory Controller is enough for 500MHz core. I also expect to see 8x1 configuration, because it seems to be most efficient for memory bandwidth available. (and besides, after ATI introduced chips with only one "TMU", the pixel fill rate has been became more important "hype" factor than texel fillrate.)
     
  13. Joe DeFuria

    Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2002
    Messages:
    5,994
    Likes Received:
    71
    500 Mhz is certainly very impressive if nVidia can pull it off! Though not quite as impressive if it means a $500 price tag.

    500 Mhz core + 500 MHz, 128 bit DDR Ram vs. 325 Mhz Core and 310 MHz 256 bit ram...should be an interesting exercise in finding out relative bottlenecks.

    Though the (currently still a rumor, IMO) naming convention is strange: 5800 and 5800 Ultra?

    nVidia has never used the "ultra" moniker since the GeForce2 architecture...before they started using numerics to indicate relative performance (like Ti 200/500, 4200/4400, etc.)

    One would think that if there's a difference in clock speed between these two high-end nVidia chips, nVidia would just stick with numerics: possibly 5600 and 5800? Is the 5800 Ultra a 256 MB version?

    Definitely some odd and even conflicting rumors flying around even at this late stage. Trying hard to not look into things for a few more hours (I assume) when the NDA is lifted and everything is official...
     
  14. Randell

    Randell Senior Daddy
    Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2002
    Messages:
    1,869
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    London
    I dont know Joe, it look like a cleaner naming convention than the 3 MX and 3 Ti names with the Gf4 launch.

    One main product, with where 5800 > 4600 and an ultra version makes more sense to me and should be clearer with the public following the Gf4 naming criticisms.

    Does this hint though that ATI will hold the DX9 mainstream market though for a while with the 9500Pro?
     
  15. Laa-Yosh

    Laa-Yosh I can has custom title?
    Legend Subscriber

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2002
    Messages:
    9,568
    Likes Received:
    1,455
    Location:
    Budapest, Hungary
    I'm sure that sooner or later you will... but right now, you'll have to trust me on that. It's 128 bit and not 256 ;)
     
  16. tieros

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2002
    Messages:
    14
    Likes Received:
    0
    ROFL I laughed so hard I think I hurt myself ! I guess the "real" name of the card is going to be "SimsFX" ? :D

    Never let financial guys review a tech product :D
     
  17. Joe DeFuria

    Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2002
    Messages:
    5,994
    Likes Received:
    71
    Well, I don't know if it's "cleaner" or not....because we don't know what the differences are between the 5800 and 5800 "ultra". ;) I was just noting that this would be a change in naming convention for nVidia, and trying to figure out what that might mean in terms of product line up.
     
  18. malcolm

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2002
    Messages:
    127
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    belgium
    After reading it is only 25-50percent faster than the radeon 9700 im glad its a 128bit bus...
     
  19. DadUM

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2002
    Messages:
    55
    Likes Received:
    0
  20. malcolm

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2002
    Messages:
    127
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    belgium
    The difference will probably be faster clock speed :)
    I agree its much better naming this way
     
Loading...

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Beyond3D has been around for over a decade and prides itself on being the best place on the web for in-depth, technically-driven discussion and analysis of 3D graphics hardware. If you love pixels and transistors, you've come to the right place!

    Beyond3D is proudly published by GPU Tools Ltd.
Loading...