Playstation 5 [PS5] [Release Holiday 2020]

Discussion in 'Console Technology' started by BRiT, Mar 17, 2020.

  1. chris1515

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  2. JPT

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    Looking at the questions with very rose-tinted PS5 glasses and knowing he was principal lead on PS5, I would venture to guess the following answers.

    1. It can, but only when the resolution and frame rate is too low of being of use.
    2. No, since he already asked MS on Twitter about intersections etc, when MS revealed XSX specs
    3. I would say higher clocks (ref him being PS5 principal engineer), but the question is open ended, is he thinking of very specific situations or can one pick any situation? I would guess each has its own situation where it is the better approach.

    Anyway, I doubt he really means what I said above, it seems a bit petty.

    I also saw a quote on here somewhere, I am unable to find again, about having 40% usage of VALU is very good utilisation. If that is the case, what are normal/average % numbers?
     
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  3. Love_In_Rio

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    Cerny has an incredible team of hardware engineers ninjas. In the next playstations what they will come with!. The Kraken developers were wowed when in the interview to talk about the decoder hardware designt Sony and AMD engineers already had almost designed the decoder.
     
    #1663 Love_In_Rio, Apr 13, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2020
  4. iroboto

    iroboto Daft Funk
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    I believe this was Cerny that said this. I suspect < 40% is the norm given his statement. i have no reason to doubt it. Though I suspect that is for this generation of engines. Not necessarily indicative of future ones.

    Yea sure, I mean, I was actually thinking back to GCN architecture and the whole wavefronts and mixed wavefronts bit. And how more wavefronts gives you less registers to work with etc. But if you don't have enough CUs, you'll stall waiting for memory to arrive. But if you have too many wavefronts, that aren't processing quickly enough you'll run out of available registers to use. I don't know how RDNA 2 handles this, so I'm a bit curious.

    Might be easier to just quote sebbbi here from an earlier thread of his from when he used to post here: https://forum.beyond3d.com/posts/1990831/

    So I guess when I wrote that, I may have been confusing that more CUs has anything to do with leveraging high occupancy to hide latency better. And in my mind, a higher clock speed with less CUs may fill up the CUs while you're waiting for memory to arrive leading to a bottleneck. A poor thought that needs more thinking and information to validate though. I hope someone can offer some insights on where I got wrong. I'm not even sure if RT would even use wavesfronts. But Nvidia specified that BVH tree uses up to 2 GB of VRAM. So there is definitely a lot of bandwidth that could be involved in traversing the structure for intersections.
     
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  5. chris1515

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    If they have something on raytracing, this is probably in the software stack. When Mark Cerny talk about raytracing he said they use the AMD version in RDNA 2.
     
  6. Inuhanyou

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    Supposedly acitivision engineer confirmed vrs in ps5? Anyone know about this?
     
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  7. BRiT

    BRiT Verified (╯°□°)╯
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    I think it was already mentioned before the hundreds of 'Member Cell and ''Member PS3 ...
     
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  8. Barrabas

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    "Playstation 5 Does Support Variable Rate Shading Feature" from RedGamingTech

     
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  9. MrFox

    MrFox Deludedly Fantastic
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    I wanted to draw an owl with a fumanchu, but then I inadvertently ended up with a speculative mechanical design for the ps5.

    ps5.png
     
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  10. Frenetic Pony

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    Absolutely, filling every wavefront with coherent shading work in raytracing pipelines that need it is going to be a nightmare. It's all too easy to imagine even NVIDIAs relatively narrow GPU waves only being half full on a few raytracing titles already. Being able to to churn through those low occupancy tasks faster will do well. But even then, it's just one part of the pipeline that the PS5 will, maybe, match the Xsx. Who cares about having a 20% faster clockspeed if the competition is over 40% wider than you.
     
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  11. pTmdfx

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    I will also throw this AMD patent into the mix, which describes one possible general approach of how their GPU architecture can be extended to address common real-time "persistent" computing needs. Audio coincidentally is one of them, and coincidentally the patent describes a system with.... bespoke CUs! :mrgreen:
     
  12. Betanumerical

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    I could see perhaps some difficulty with the localstore depending on how its used by a game. Im not sure if a traditional cache could perfectly emulate the performance of the LS on the SPU's with minimal effort.
     
  13. chris1515

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    This could be part of the modification. Interesting.

    And they talk about multiples FMA units. Great and something needed for audio. This was a great presentation from someone from SCEA about doing audio on AMD HSA and maybe part of the PS4 audio postmortem.

    https://fr.slideshare.net/mobile/DevCentralAMD/mm-4085-laurentbetbeder
     
    #1673 chris1515, Apr 14, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2020
  14. temesgen

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    How goes modifying a single CU impact yields? what I mean is, if 36 of 40 need to meet a certain tolerance for the chip to be good, how does a CU modification effect manufacturing process?
     
  15. goonergaz

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    Apparently it’s not the size but what you do with it that counts.
     
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  16. KeanuReeves

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    "[...] We're calling the hardware unit that we build, the Tempest Engine. It's based on AMDs GPU technology. We modified a compute unit in such a way as to make it very close to the SPUs in PlayStation 3. Remember when I said that they were ideal for audio? So, the Tempest Engine has no caches, just like an SPU. All data access is via DMA, just like an SPU [...]"
    - Mark Cerny, The Road to PS5 @44:32

    I think at least Mark Cerny was talking of PS3 SPUs.:?:
     
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  17. patsu

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    Is this patent part of AMD TrueAudio ?
     
  18. Shifty Geezer

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    Yes there. But when someone else says the PS5 has a SPU, they may mean Sound Processing Unit because it hasn't got a SPU from PS3 in it. Some devs however do mean an SPU in a confusing way, because PS5 hasn't got a SPU in it. Saying," yay, SPU is back," is just gonna confuse a lot of people.
     
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  19. Shifty Geezer

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    It should be the same as any other functional block in that there's no redundancy. If one of the CU has a defect, the chip is still usable, but if the Tempest Engine has a defect, same as if one of the CPU cores has a defect, the chip is unusable.
     
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  20. Jay

    Jay
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    Same acromyn.
    What makes it more confusing for people is that the PS5 SPU is refered to as like the PS3's.
     
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