Playstation 5 [PS5] [Release Holiday 2020]

Discussion in 'Console Technology' started by BRiT, Mar 17, 2020.

  1. Shifty Geezer

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    Or rather, PC parts that get boosts, for PCs. PS5 isn't a PC and it doesn't make sense to describe it as if it was. You can expect a PC part to fluctuate between base and boost opportunistically, but PS5 isn't going to work that way, so using those same two figures will present a false idea of what's going on.

    Putting it another way, if Sony gave two clock speeds, people would relate it to the PC variable boost clocks and think the typical clock speed wanders between the two.
     
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  2. Karamazov

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    all in in all holes
     
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  3. PSman1700

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    It's also different in that, my 2080Ti is having it's lowest clock advertised, and the TF number is there after the default base clock. A 2080Ti is 14TF (somewhere?) when taking boost clocks in consideration. The PS5 seems to use a further developed version of smart shift to control the variable clocks (when needed under heavy work load).
     
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  4. Shifty Geezer

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    PCs can't control the workload so IHVs would have considered it. eg. A PC GPU may be used for compute workloads, and you don't know what CPU you'll have and if supports some power management features, and if it has a decent profile to fit the power management. It's also a considerable engineering feat and there's no need in the PC space, whereas Sony were willing to take up the cost. Also, you can typically just go wider etc. so don't need to worry about squeezing juice from high clocks and push efficiency that much more. Sony finding themselves limited to 36 CUs thanks to BC may have looked harder at the squeezing more out the silicon - necessity is the mother of invention!

    We shouldn't assume anything fabulous on Sony's part until we see the final product and what it can do. It may not live up to optimistic expectations. Only when the hardware is released and evaluated can we see if it's a good approach. Then perhaps the PC space will look into it more, and have to arrange some form of protocol for the IHVs to adhere to.
     
  5. fehu

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    Isn't plain smartshift already based on heuristic data based on load?
     
  6. Shifty Geezer

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    And if the RTX 2080 Ti sat mostly at its boosted clock speed for all users, would nVidia be calling it a 13 TF part or a 14 TF part?
     
  7. TheAlSpark

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    nVidia measures in MSRP $. :embarrased:
     
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  8. PSman1700

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    No idea really, good one, for PR 14TF would work the best :p Now your saying it, the RTX GPU's are mostly on their boosted clocks, but NV advertises a whole TF lower anyway. I think it depends, im seeing the 2080Ti as a 13.4TF product, it's the absolute performance im getting.
     
  9. iroboto

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    My understanding is that smartshift is 1/2 the solution.
    The bespoke technology that they built was the algorithm that detects workloads and controls the frequencies between the CPU and GPU.
    So the workloads will dictate the frequencies on both.
    The power to the SOC stays constant however (but the individual cores on both the CPU and GPU have their limits, thus clocking limits)
    So while their tech controls the frequency on both the CPU and GPU, it does not shift the power between the 2 units.

    Smartshift is the technology that transfers any residual power back and forth between the two.

    So Sony's tech without smart shift just would have meant downclocking under heavy loads.
    With Smart Shift they can handle larger loads than without as a result of the power shift from CPU to GPU.

    So the easiest way to look at it:
    GPU 2.23 GHz because the GPU cores are not heavily burdened so they give more power to less cores to work faster.
    When a workload comes along and it requires all workloads to fire it will need to downclock to say, 2.0GHz because the power is now equally divided back among the cores.
    there may be some additional sharing of power back and forth between the cores to keep the frequency up or TDP down as well.

    Smart shift comes into play in which when those loads come and utilize everything on the GPU and it still needs more power or a downclock will occur, the smartshift will pull available CPU power over to the GPU.
    In essence it is a reinforcement.

    If that limit is broken, depending on the profile the devs picked, it could downclock the CPU further to sustain the GPU.

    Further than that, the GPU will need to downclock.

    All of this happening very quickly of course.
     
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  10. Globalisateur

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    Smartshift should be based on pure power consumption (of the CPU). PS5 variable frequency is based on such a load.
     
  11. Globalisateur

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    No smartshift only transfers (virtually or really ?) power from CPU to GPU and allow GPU to be clocked higher (by their variable clocks tech).
     
  12. iroboto

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    right, it's a one way direction you mean? That makes sense. the CPU will never need more power likely, the GPU is going to be 3x-4x more power hungry.

    edit: nah, it's gotta go back and forth
     
    #1152 iroboto, Apr 2, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2020
  13. PSman1700

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    Ok nice explained, sounds like a very good tech for laptops too.
     
  14. fehu

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    https://www.amd.com/en/technologies/smartshift

    AMD SmartShift technology allows the processor and the graphics to consume power from a shared power budget by dynamically shifting power depending on the task at hand.
     
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  15. Scott_Arm

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    I don't disagree with that. There will always be times when the CPU waits on DRAM accesses, or the workload shifts etc.
     
  16. mrcorbo

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    However the details shake out, it seems this is clearly a smart optimization.
     
  17. Rockster

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    The disclosure of Sony's frequency curve at given activity levels is inevitable in my mind. Seems better to get out in front of it now, so there is time for people to forget prior to launch and allow the focus to shift to the games as it should. And honestly, I think that is what they are "trying" so hard to do now. Unfortunately, that obvious lack of transparency is going to continue to raise questions rather than simply putting them all to rest with hard facts.
     
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  18. MrFox

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    Hahaha, no. People will move on to the next FUD.
     
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  19. mpg1

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    Is there any feature in the PS5 that would mitigate potential memory bandwidth issues?
     
  20. shiznit

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    So the opposite of race-to-idle, run the CPU at the slowest clock speed your frametime budget allows. This doesn't bode well for VRR support and I still don't see how it would allow both CPU and GPU to average clocks above 2.0/3.0 if you're throttling the CPU to free up GPU power budget.
     
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