Playstation 5 [PS5] [Release November 12 2020]

[London Geezer]

Where did you get this info ? It's not me inventing here. We don't know if it's gonna run on ps5 with ps4-pro assets. Hopefully... Well publishers may want to gain something... So they may give you an incentive to upgrade to the full 60 fps ps5 version. I can understand that. It's also fine to pay something to have more... Anyways will see.

Not sure how you think PS4 Pro works but this is definitely not it. There are no “PS4 Pro assets”. PS4 games are the same as the Pro versions, with the same assets, the only difference being that a game with a Pro mode simply runs with enhancements, normally just higher resolution but sometimes also at higher or more stable frame rates. Assets and the entire content of the game is exactly the same across both versions.

 

[BRiT]

Really? There's no hires texture updates for 4Pro games like there are for Xbox OneX games? Is that because Sony didnt expand the memory for the 4Pro aside from a little bit for the larger framebuffer?

 

[chris1515]

Really? There's no hires texture updates for 4Pro games like there are for Xbox OneX games? Is that because Sony didnt expand the memory for the 4Pro aside from a little bit for the larger framebuffer?

Exactly, this is exactly the same assets.

 

[Globalisateur]

Not sure who you think PS4 Pro works but this is definitely not it. There are no “PS4 Pro assets”. PS4 games are the same as the Pro versions, with the same assets, the only difference being that a game with a Pro mode simply runs with enhancements, normally just higher resolution but sometimes also at higher or more stable frame rates. Assets and the entire content of the game is exactly the same across both versions.

That's not true. The game can check if it runs on PS4 or Pro and it can use different assets on Pro if needed. And indeed some games have better assets on Pro like on Shadow of the Tomb Raider (same assets as XBX version). It's rare but it's definitely possible.

Well, the Xbox One X and PlayStation 4 Pro versions receive higher quality '4K' textures.

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2018-shadow-of-the-tomb-raider-tech-analysis

 

[London Geezer]

That's not true. The game can check if it runs on PS4 or Pro and it can use different assets on Pro if needed. And indeed some games have better assets on Pro like on Shadow of the Tomb Raider (same assets as XBX version). It's rare but it's definitely possible.



https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2018-shadow-of-the-tomb-raider-tech-analysis

It’s very, very, very rare. There just isn’t enough memory to swap assets for higher quality ones most of the time.

 

[London Geezer]

I also remember now that there is a 4K pack for Borderlands 2, if I remember correctly. Which you must download separately.

As I said, very rare.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

There is no such thing as PS4 Pro assets. PS4 Pro games are PS4 game run at higher resolution.

There's a bunch of PS4 Pro games with higher resolution textures and/or models with higher polygon count, at least according to this:
https://www.gamesradar.com/ps4-pro-confirmed-games-list/

I'm seeing around two dozen games claiming better textures.
Though it makes sense that the Pro versions has no higher resolution textures. There's no more RAM in it, as the additional 512MB made available to the developers is only for a 4K framebuffer IIRC.

 

[Lalaland]

Yeah this is a lot of drama over nothing.
A PS4 titleame with PS5 time limited upgrade programs will simply gift a special digital PS5 version of the game to accounts with the disc. The special version will disc check, not a specific disk (there is no way to do this) just any PS4 copy of the game. After the date when a PS4 disc is inserted the game will simply install and run as a PS4 version of the game (for accounts that didn't redeem the PS5 upgrade during the window) . That's how it worked with PS3 to PS4 upgrades and you need to reach pretty far to imagine another scenario here.

Edit: Based on my experience of the BF upgrade program over the PS4 launch, my PS3 disc broke, borrowed a friends PS3 disc and the PS4 upgraded version continued to work

 

[Strange]

Point is that him stating that we don't know if PS5 will run PS4pro level stuff or PS4 level stuff because we "don't know" is just disingenuous due to us getting direct confirmation from Cerny that they hardware coded PS4 pro mode and PS4 mode into the PS5. That's some level of FUD.

 

[Quadbitnomial]

There's a bunch of PS4 Pro games with higher resolution textures and/or models with higher polygon count, at least according to this:
https://www.gamesradar.com/ps4-pro-confirmed-games-list/

I'm seeing around two dozen games claiming better textures.
Though it makes sense that the Pro versions has no higher resolution textures. There's no more RAM in it, as the additional 512MB made available to the developers is only for a 4K framebuffer IIRC.

A lot of those games claiming higher resolution texture are being generous with that claim including shadow of the tomb raider. For the most part, just the higher output resolution of the enhanced consoles better resolves details that are lost from the base consoles lower resolution output. For the sake of time lets take the first 3 games on the list that claim higher resolution textures.

A Plague Tale: Innocence

Assassin's Creed Rogue Remastered

Batman: Return to Arkham

There's also plenty of evidence to suggest that support for the new console remains a simple case of the developer activating the Pro flag and not implementing any additional support whatsoever.

As things stand, with the 30fps cap in place, the only advantage Pro owners get is a better lock on the target frame-rate. At the very least, removing the 'dynamic' resolution scaling is a must, while some attempt at a higher resolution 4K output mode would be welcome. There's talk in the patch notes of Pro 'enhanced visuals' but we've yet to actually see any - everything we've seen so far is a match for the base PS4 game.

For the most part, there is no such thing as PS4 Pro assets. Borderlands being one of the clear exception on PS4 Pro with the separate UHD texture pack as @London Geezer points out.

 

[HBRU]

Point is that him stating that we don't know if PS5 will run PS4pro level stuff or PS4 level stuff because we "don't know" is just disingenuous due to us getting direct confirmation from Cerny that they hardware coded PS4 pro mode and PS4 mode into the PS5. That's some level of FUD.

Capabilities are there. Ok.
Will see actually if ps4-pro enhancements will be downloaded, for free, e for wich game...

 

[HBRU]

Ok so was the base ps4 that lost in many cases resolution and ps4-pro just shows the original assets... in thoose cases -I agree- will not have to worry too much on what we will see on ps5.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Hmmm I’m not sure the two points you mentioned are related, as in my understanding you improve HDD performance by duplicating some data. Whereas the space reserved for update is like some kind of swap or recovery point, so you can cancel the update half way without needing to delete the whole game. But if it indeed does not reserve space for update, it’s relieving to hear!

I've not heard of the PS4 having some recovery point mechanism, it certainly could, but the reason some (not all) updates result in a big temporary spike in disc usage is because the PS4 creates new game files from the original and the patch changes downloaded. .It will find a nice contiguous free space on the HDD for - and it may need to move other dat around to create such a space. This is all about reducing seek times to improve read performance.

The SSD does not have seek times os the data doesn't need to be contagious so games can be scatter in a million places across the SSD at not hit to performance - as Mark Cerny explained. The duplicate data is related but not the case. Many games are broken down into small packs of assets and common assets (mailboxes in Spider-Man was the example used) will appear many, many times in these packs. Duplicate data will go away in PS5 meaning games should be, all things being equal, a bit smaller.

 

[Strange]

Capabilities are there. Ok.
Will see actually if ps4-pro enhancements will be downloaded, for free, e for wich game...

Do you see PS4 pro enhancements not being offered for free? If not why would you suggest that they would suddenly do that?

This is great !
Love to have in 40 days this future proof super console... Goodbye to Sony and it's lack of informations.

Maybe this is why you're spreading misinformation.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Black was used in the Quick Resume trailer & its backward compatible in the US. The list above was for South Africa. :/

Tommy McClain

Yeah, hate it when it defaults. BLACK on the list.

https://www.xbox.com/en-US/xbox-one/backward-compatibility/available-games

Still says 607 games though.

https://www.xbox.com/en-US/xbox-one/backward-compatibility/

Copied the listed games to an excel spreadsheet and it's 605 games. Go figure. Wonder why the ZA site isn't updated.

p.s. Interestingly enough, the ZA site only have 303 games listed.

 

[HBRU]

Do you see PS4 pro enhancements not being offered for free? If not why would you suggest that they would suddenly do that?





Maybe this is why you're spreading misinformation.

I did not suggest. I just suspect this can happen. But then I realized the ps4 games actually display less of the same graphical assets they share with ps4-pro (in most of the case) and that reassured a bit more me of what we will see on ps5...

 

[goonergaz]

I haven't seen any of those rumours until now. But imo, I didn't like the his reasons for debunking. The rumours are certainly not believable for different reasons, but imo, not for any of the reasons provided.

The simple answer to look at power consumption differences between CPU and GPU. If Power Shift would be able to showcase that for the CPU to feed the GPU would be disproportionally a larger drop in power reduction to increase the GPU by a little bit more. Or a small drop in GPU should be able to feed the CPU significantly. The rumour numbers provided don't suggest this at all, particularly the last one. That would have been a simple litmus test to go with.

Secondly smart profiles/locked profiles are an absolutely must, there's no reason to get rid of them even if the profiles get better. If you are trying to maximize a variable clock system, that's like trying to screw in 2 boards together without locking either of them into position. At least the CPU or GPU should be locked during the optimization process. You cannot maximize both CPU and GPU in such a way to get the maximum swing on both of them while being variable. Ultimately developers will have to aim for a performance level below maximum.

The upside of course is that you get more performance out of that smaller chip and the developer can suitably use the hardware to be focused on what they require, so either more CPU performance or more GPU performance.

Did you actually watch the whole video or just the debunking bit (which is all you mention).

He literally said several sources have confirmed 3% worst case for a couple of frames at worst.

Essentially if this is true the PS5 will indeed be at maximum speed most of the time as Cerny stated.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Did you actually watch the whole video or just the debunking bit (which is all you mention).

He literally said several sources have confirmed 3% worst case for a couple of frames at worst.

Essentially if this is true the PS5 will indeed be at maximum speed most of the time as Cerny stated.

He also mentions the laptops(Renoir APU's) with Smartshift that doesn't have profiles. So no need for profiles on the PS5. The AMD/Sony algorithms automatically shift power when necessary.

I seem to remember reading somewhere here on B3D a while ago, someone mentioned that Smartshift can do changes every 2ms. So what Paul talks about seems plausible. (I still don't like most of his videos though, he seems to cover everything just to cover his arse).

https://forum.beyond3d.com/posts/2142668/
https://forum.beyond3d.com/posts/2143112/

@[URL='https://forum.beyond3d.com/members/disco_.91439/']disco_[/URL] Seems @London Geezer was right after all with regards to the Spider-man Remastered release.

 

[Globalisateur]

...

For the most part, there is no such thing as PS4 Pro assets. Borderlands being one of the clear exception on PS4 Pro with the separate UHD texture pack as @London Geezer points out.

And shadow of the tomb raider.

Capabilities are there. Ok.
Will see actually if ps4-pro enhancements will be downloaded, for free, e for wich game...

You are trying too hard. The game should not being able to detect if it's running on PS5. The game will see either a PS4 or a Pro flag. And in most cases the enhancements (CBR, higher resolution, higher framerate) do not need a download. They are already in the default game code.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

A lot of those games claiming higher resolution texture are being generous with that claim including shadow of the tomb raider.

I'm not sure what you mean with "being generous with that claim".
The developers are lying or being subversive when they say they're using higher-resolution textures on the Pro version? Is DigitalFoundry lying or being subversive when claiming the same thing?

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...eld-1-smoother-and-more-responsive-on-ps4-pro

Battlefield 1 also retains its resolution advantage on PlayStation 4 Pro, and it's not exactly a stretch to think that its other campaign enhancements - improved textures, effects work and terrain detail also extend into the Pro mode.

https://www.ioi.dk/hitman-hd-faq/

Increased texture resolution:

• Textures are usually authored in higher resolutions and then downscaled to fit in memory.
• With more memory available on the newer consoles this downscale is not necessary anymore and the textures can be enjoyed in their authored resolutions.

Upgraded texture formats:

• The new consoles have support for newer and improved texture formats.
• We use these where applicable for better-looking textures with fewer artifacts.

I could try to pick up all the examples there are in that list, but it's certainly more cases than what you're claiming.
I'm pretty sure that there will be cases where the devs only say "improved graphics" and they slip in some larger/better textures in, too.




Regardless, it's not like the 2013 consoles were lacking in RAM (8GB was x16 times more than their predecessors, a similar jump would have put the current gen at 128GB) so they probably already were using pretty large textures for their time.
It's not like the mid-gen patches were in desperate need for higher resolution textures on higher poly count models. But it happened nonetheless.