Playstation 5 [PS5] [Release Holiday 2020]

Discussion in 'Console Technology' started by BRiT, Mar 17, 2020.

  1. London-boy

    London-boy Shifty's daddy
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    I also don’t understand how the decompressor can correspond to 9 Zen2 cores. If it’s bullshit, then fine. But if it’s true, then HOW?? Is it because it has one operation to do, and nothing else? And it is that fast at that one operation? Have I just answered my own question?
     
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  2. PSman1700

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    Yes most likely. I think it's not because those zen 2 cores ain't powerfull, they are just 'bad' at the job the kraken/decompression unit excells at.
    It reminds me of NV's shadowplay, it was introduced with the gtx660 and up. Before that, it was impossible to record ingame gameplay without the system coming to a crawl, if you wanted 'decent' quality. With kepler NV added hw encoding block to the GPU's, and even lower end systems had/have no problem recording even 4k 60fps at high bitrates, all while playing cpu intensive games like BF4 MP.
     
  3. Jay

    Jay
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    Was Sonys claims, specifically about kraken is more my question I guess.
    I was under the impression kraken was additive. Are these benches doing all the other decompressons that Sony was talking about in regards to how many zen cores it would take.
     
  4. chris1515

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    Wait some benchmark to know which one is better between BCPack and oodle texture or maybe you are one of this less than 10 peoples on earth knowing how the two perform the best.

    At the end Kraken is much faster to decode than zilb maybe the ASIC decompressor is not more expensive than the one in Xbox Series X and the only difference in I/O is the second ARM A5 CPU on the I/O side compared to Xbox Series X.

    Console are a compromise and they estimated more than 14 Gbps GDDR6 cost too much.
     
  5. Mianca

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    You mixed up the numbers. Cerny's "equivalent to 9 Zen2 cores" statement related to the KRAKEN hardware decompressor. The numbers you quoted relate to OODLE TEXTURE. Read the entire twitter feed: They are using compute shaders for texture decompression on PS5/XSX - and are reaching nearly 200GB/s (output) doing so. In comparison to THAT, a Skylake core at 3GHz does 3-5GB/s (i.e. not bad - but it's faster to do it on the GPU; that's what Fabian Giesen meant to say).

    In contrast, Cerny was referring to KRAKEN format decompression, basically stating that it would take 9 Zen2 cores to decompress KRAKEN format input data at the raw speed the PS5 SSD is capable of reading it (5GB/s+).
     
    #3265 Mianca, Aug 2, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2020
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  6. DSoup

    DSoup meh
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    This is such a weird number to throw it, it suggests that only 10 people have access to both the PS5 and Xbox Series X hardware and that just doesn't sound right. Fine, we know Microsoft are behind with devkits but to that degree? I don't buy it. :nope:
     
  7. Remij

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    "Access to both AND actually bothered to do a proper comparison"
     
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  8. JPT

    JPT
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    To be fair, he said

    Actually bothered to do the comparison is bit important. Also many MS devs might not have bothered to license Kraken for XSX since they, I assume, get BCPack for free.
    Of course PS5 Kraken vs XSX BCPack can still be done, but hardware comes into play also.
     
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  9. BRiT

    BRiT Verified (╯°□°)╯
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    Wasn't Oodle Texture a very recent thing, so perhaps that is the more limiting aspect than HW Devkits.
     
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  10. Globalisateur

    Globalisateur Globby
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    Yes. All the numbers Cerny gave us were done with benchmarks without the recent Oodle textures.
     
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  11. chris1515

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    Oodle texture was just released when he said it. He probably speaks about the preview of the product. He said they did some tests on games data before release and the priority was PS5.

    Probably some people did some early test or some people did some tests in the three or four days after the official release of Oodle textures.

    Oodle texture is available on Xbox Series X why people will need to evaluate BCPack on two different consoles and one where BCPack is not available. They sold a software, they don't care about the difference of SSD speed or ASIC decompressor between the two consoles.
     
    #3271 chris1515, Aug 2, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2020
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  12. Mihailjones

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    Yes.

    CPU is like a guy whom knows how to do 10000 different things, not as fast as possible but he can do them. General purpose prosessors

    Special chip for certain function is like an autistic guy whom does only one thing really really fast, but have no idea about all the other stuff. Fixed function prosessors

    It is easier to calculate one thing really fast, than having to calculate multiple different things with the same chip
     
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  13. PSman1700

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    Damn 200GB/s, GPU's seem very effective for certain tasks. GPU manufacturers could dedicate a CU/block for this kind of operations in the future.
     
  14. MrFox

    MrFox Deludedly Fantastic
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    Bitstream processing that don't really need random access from ram over a large or unpredictable data window look like very good candidates for fixed functions blocks. Codecs, audio/video filters, decompression...

    They are also very well suited for a cell-like architecture if the flexibility of a cpu is still important (which seems to be the ideology behind tempest). DMA the bitstream in and out, and process one block at a time in an sram buffer just big enough for the block size. It's perfect data locality, impervious to latency, and no big stalls from cache misses.
     
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  15. Globalisateur

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    You still need I/O fast enough to feed the decompression block. I think this test was done on compressed data already in memory.
     
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  16. Inuhanyou

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    Which is crazy to me....people were impressed with 5gb per second let alone compressed 8 to 9gb per sec bw speeds.

    But because of oodle(how did sony license it for all devs so fast?), the numbers we have are effectively the low ball expectations for i\o speed in addition to significantly smaller game sizes and other things?

    How does a simple software solution for game compression not even originally factored in become so important for this process? And it just so happens to get significantly faster when put on top of the ps5s kraken decompressor? I feel like its way too good to be true.

    Someone smarter than me in this thread, tell me what i am missing about this
     
  17. MrFox

    MrFox Deludedly Fantastic
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    That 120 to 200GB/s metric is for the optional BC7Prep post processing. Not kraken decompression.
     
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  18. DSoup

    DSoup meh
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    Sony were already working closely with Rad Game Tools for Kraken, so licensing an additional piece of tech was likely straight forward and it is not like Oodle requires bespoke hardware, it leverages the existing Kraken decompression block in Sony's I/O chip.

    Giving all devs a defacto licence is smart, hopefully Sony learned something from the issues encountered with Fallout 4 mods on PS4 which because PS4 uses a specific audio format, all generic Fallout 4 mods that use a different audio format won't work without some effort.
     
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  19. SlmDnk

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    Quick FAQ on PS4 compatibility.

    https://blog.playstation.com/2020/0...ns-on-compatible-ps4-peripherals-accessories/

     
  20. orangpelupa

    orangpelupa Elite Bug Hunter
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    I suspect it will be a PS4 AUX female to MALE USB. Fuck yeah! Finally PSVR on PC will be easier to setup than using multiple PS3 cameras taking a bunch of usb ports and taking time to calibrate.
     
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