Pirates moan about getting pirated

Discussion in 'Politics & Ethics of Technology' started by Billy Idol, Apr 29, 2013.

  1. tuna

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    I thought the ofcom study looked pretty good. It also seemed to ask the respondents how much they spent on media.
     
  2. Zaphod

    Zaphod Remember
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    Ah. But that's not what all the available studies say. They just say that your friends (if they are statistically average pirates) also spend more money on games than the statistically average person who don't pirate at all.

    Edit: Hadn't noticed the above part on games tuna quoted above. That's interesting. If so, game pirates may be different than video or music pirates.
     
  3. tuna

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  4. Silent_Buddha

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    For video pirates, I actually have first hand experience with that, as does Joker, I believe. Not so for music, haven't kept in touch with any of the bands I knew back in the early 90's when I lived in Los Angeles.

    In my case, I had 2 independant video producer associates who almost went out of business due to piracy. They had to resort to lawyers sending DMCA take down requests to forums, websites, blogs, torrent sites, usenet hosts, and finally internet providers to stem the flood of pirated material. That was after trying to appeal to the people pirating their material in forums and on their sales portals.

    After they did that, the number of people viewing their material went down from what they could tell, but their revenue skyrocketed. Prior to do that the number of videos that were viewed was skyrocketing, but their revenue was plummeting.

    Basically my conclusion has been that piraters will lie to either make themselves feel better about what they are doing, or do so on surveys to avoid the potential for their pirating activities to be curtailed by tougher laws and technology.

    After all, if anonymous surveys show that pirating doesn't hurt, then nothing will be done to stop the flow of "free" product.

    Regards,
    SB
     
  5. Zaphod

    Zaphod Remember
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    Not strong support, no.
     
  6. Dr Evil

    Dr Evil Anas platyrhynchos
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    Thanks for the links. I noticed this text from the second link:

    What's an infringer who consumes all content legally? I don't understand this.

    Anyway the thing is that I don't so much doubt these "spends more" findings, when the subject is movies or music, but PC or console games are imo a completely different world and same generalities don't apply there. I believe that very many who pirate PC games do it almost exclusively and rarely buys games.
     
  7. gkar1

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    Translation, the developers failed at convincing people to give them their money. As for your grandstanding and high horse riding: :roll:
     
  8. Silent_Buddha

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    Yes, and in my example of Skyrim, the developers obviously failed at convincing people that spent over 100 hours playing their game, raving about it to friend and family, and downloading and playing every single DLC to buy their game. :roll:

    It's really really simple. If you don't want to pay for a game. DON'T PLAY IT.

    As to the game in the OP. People had played and progressed far enough into the game (more than a few hours) before hitting the piracy code. If they played that long, they obviously liked the game. But still chose not to buy it. Your flippant attitude towards pirating, just does not hold up in the face of reality.

    Regards,
    SB
     
  9. Zaphod

    Zaphod Remember
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    Oh, that some people does get royally screwed over by piracy is a given. That the "content industry" as a whole would be better off if all piracy went away tomorrow is significantly less clear.

    And what about the economy at large had widespread internet piracy never existed? Internet adoption rates and infrastructure? Amazon? Google? How about if the content industries had succeeded in their rallying against virtually every new technology with potential infringing uses; from the player piano to broadband, via home taping and the VCR?

    What if copyrights do not serve society as a whole (anymore)? Should we still enforce them? Now, I'm not necessarily arguing that piracy should be legal; just that that there, as with everything else, must be a balance to such things.
     
  10. Zaphod

    Zaphod Remember
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    I think it's just a typo and that they mean video games consumers who bought all their games legally spent more than those who (also) infringed.
     
  11. Daozang

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    Would Microsoft be were it's now, if their operating system wasn't pirated as much as it did? :lol:
     
  12. Dr Evil

    Dr Evil Anas platyrhynchos
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    That's how I read it too, but then it's the opposite of

    ?
     
  13. 3dilettante

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    The bottom line is that these non-essential products are produced and brought to a market where gaining access to the content is contingent upon entering into a commercial transaction with the rightsholder, per the established laws of a functioning society and sometimes human decency.

    Some feel they have enough excuses to say they don't need to play by those rules.


    Are you saying you've gone on to pay for every game you've downloaded without engaging in the appropriate transaction with the rightsholder?

    How far do you get into the game before you decide you don't feel like paying?
    The majority of paying customers don't finish their games, either.

    What if they put a lot of effort into something, but you just don't like it?
    What if there's some flaw you can't tolerate, but millions of others would consider minor?

    We can all do things that make things better/easier for us that we have don't have the right to do.

    I criticize rightholders that assume rights they do not have, even though those acts can compel people to spend more money. Millions of members of society are able to handle this complex world where they have to buy things.

    I don't find financial analysis built on a foundation of suiting yourself compelling to the same degree it's convenient for you.
     
  14. Zaphod

    Zaphod Remember
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    Yes, indeed. I hadn't seen that provision on software/video games before. It does contradict all the studies I have seen on music and video (movies and TV) piracy.

    As for why, I don't know. A couple of hypotheses: Could be demographics (perhaps we should make it legal for everyone except young males to pirate), could be the maturity of the market (I'm sure things might have looked different back when the majority of music piracy was on university servers), or it could even be that the effort required to pirate (at least console) games (in the UK) is so high as to drive more people into being dedicated exclusive pirates (rather than mixed legal/illegal consumers).
     
  15. joker454

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    Awesome, that's a new one!. I need to try that next time I buy a car. I'll take it for a test drive and return it in one month with 30,000 miles on it, then say sorry you Didn't Convince Me (tm) to give you my money. I'll do that every month for the next 30 years, I'm sure it'll be no problem with the car dealers. I mean heck if they Didn't Convince Me (tm) then why should they get my money? Sure I drove their car for a full month and yeah I put 30,000 miles on it, and yeah I was entertained by it, it was a great car! But they Didn't Convince Me (tm) to give them my money. They need to work harder and be less greedy, maybe then one day they can convince me to part with my money. I'll give them another chance next month when I test drive another one of their cars for 30,000 miles.
     
  16. ERP

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    Actually I think it's a valid point which is why you'll see more and more games on the PC move to Free to Play or as it should really be called Pay to Play.
     
  17. gkar1

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    Yup they failed at convincing that tiny_anecdotal_sample size of people from you example who amount to a fraction of the statistical margin of error. But they can chalk that up as free advertisement.

    :roll: What difference does it make if they played it or not? They didn't and aren't going to pay for it, get over it. Software has infinite supply and virtually 0 storage cost. Your job is convincing them to want to pay you, period.

    Unproven assumption and anyone running a business based on such assumptions will have to learn through failure.

    Any business venture has risks. Attaching a sense of entitlement, expecting to be made whole or to even profit from such venture does not hold up in the face of reality.

    They already did the hardest thing, build an audience interested in their work. Now all they have to do is convince enough of them to want to give them their money.



    :roll: Software and ALL virtual "goods" have infinite supply, 0 storage costs and do not depreciate as time goes by like physical goods. Try harder.
     
  18. NRP

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    Ain't that the truth. I've been playing Mech Warrior Online, which is "free to play", yet I've already spent hundreds of dollars on content for it. It seems like a good business model if your game is compelling enough.
     
  19. joker454

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    I totally agree with you, I think your line of thinking should be extended everywhere. For example your boss should do the same to you at work. When the time comes for your paycheck he should decide if you have convinced him to pay you. Your work is virtual after all, there's no physical goods involved you just supplied your time. Sure he made full use of your 40 hours that week, but if he decides you haven't convinced him to pay you then you get no paycheck. Stop being greedy and expecting a paycheck for your time spent. After all there's no storage costs involved and no physical items being deprecated. It's just your time so there is no theft here and no victims. It's just you being greedy and being expected to get paid. Work harder next time then maybe you can convince him to pay you.
     
  20. pcchen

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    Of course it matters. It brings down the perceived value of the game. If others can have essentially the same thing for free, that'd affect people's valuation of your game, as you should know that all valuation are comparative.
     
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