Pirates moan about getting pirated

Discussion in 'Politics & Ethics of Technology' started by Billy Idol, Apr 29, 2013.

  1. MrFloopy

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    Exactly this. No one is saying you have to spend the money. All we are saying is that the copyright owners get to decide who and how their creative and technical effort is distributed. You can argue until you are blue in the face that it's too expensive, a rip off, or that it's better for the publisher because it creates buzz etc etc etc, but it means squat. You don't get to choose. They do. You want to control the distribution of IP then make your own.

    Honestly the entitlement attitude with regards to completely discretionary products such as entertainment which lead to copyright infringement from grown adults just astounds me.
     
  2. pcchen

    pcchen Moderator
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    Most of these researches are about music and movies, where there might not be good way to buy them digitally (see the case of "The Game of Thrones" for an example). Games, on the other hand, are generally very "digital friendly," so it may be quite different.
     
  3. gkar1

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    The game fails at adequately simulating the reality of the situation, no wonder it's getting pirated.

    When "piracy" starts to happen you should have the option to lower the price of the game or implement a pay_whatever_you_want approach and add an option of crowd sourcing for the sequel as well. You should also have the option of firing the team responsible for implementing DRM as that is a proven useless expense. That way you can keep feeding the rest of the overpaid developers on your payroll.

    Pirates are potentially your best customers as many studies have proven that they spend more on content than people who don't pirate. You need to cater to them, not antagonize them. Remember, you already spent the money, time and resources on making the game and no one forced you to make the game in the first place, yet most developers and publishers have this stupid sense of entitlement thinking that just because they created something they deserve to profit from it. That's simply bullshit.

    You need to EARN their money and if you fail to CONVINCE THEM TO WANT TO GIVE YOU THEIR MONEY for your unlimited supply software, you need a different/better strategy.
     
  4. 3dilettante

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    It's way too many layers of irony if the devs implemented a complex set options and feedback that expand the design and provide depth only available to the sabotaged "pirate" copy.
     
  5. pcchen

    pcchen Moderator
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    You mean these pirates are so good at knowing how good a game is on day one?
    Game websites should hire them as reviewers.
     
  6. Dr Evil

    Dr Evil Anas platyrhynchos
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    Does someone have a link in hand to a study that shows pirates buying more? I'd like to read it as it sounds too weird to just accept at face value. It better not be about pirates buying more than some "general population", who don't even own a gaming device.
     
  7. 3dilettante

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    Depending on whether the code was leaked during the distribution phase, it's possible they'd know if a game is good before the street date.
    A game site's wrecking any embargoes aside, and assuming that one such individual is also decent at writing, warning consumers would probably endanger a lot of pre-sales.

    So that alone probably means no big game site would hire them...
     
  8. pcchen

    pcchen Moderator
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    This is obviously not the case, as the "pirated copy" was deliberately leaked by the game developers containing altered codes. These pirates are "ordinary" pirates, not some people with secret access to pre-release codes.
    The fact that this game was pirated so much on day one suggests that the quality of this game is not a major deciding factor for these pirates, especially considering this game also has a freely available demo.
     
  9. 3dilettante

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    I'm speaking to a more general case than this one specific game, with regards to whether game sites would touch them.
    Leaks from the disc pressing phase aren't unheard of.
    Going to a purely digital delivery system would remove a pretty long time window for final code to leak out.
     
  10. pcchen

    pcchen Moderator
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    I know. My post to gkar1 is sarcastic :)
    I mean, people have a lot of different excuses for piracy. Some are reasonable (such as, I really like this game but it's not sold in my country), and some are understandable (such as, this game has no free demo and I really don't want to waste my money on bad games), but when you get rid of most of these excuses, games are still being heavily pirated. This is all well known, and this case is just another reminder.

    If people keep trying to rationalize for piracy, I guess we really can't complain about how this industry is going for crap "free" games and big, predictable productions, with very little in between.
     
  11. orangpelupa

    orangpelupa Elite Bug Hunter
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    maybe those pirates running torrent bots on their machines that auto download and auto categorize it for them.
    When the human are back in the front of the pc, he see there are a new game downloaded and tried to play it.

    some will feel the game are good and start googling for the official website and buy it. some other will just stop playing. some other will keep playing and complaining their game got piracy problem inside game.

    EDIT:
    just googled torrent bot and there are so many software for that. wow. theres a huge demmand for torrent bot.
     
  12. tuna

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    All studies I have seen with that conclusion have been incredibly flawed. Do you know some good ones?
     
  13. tuna

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    Get PS+.
     
  14. 3dilettante

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    The existence of those tools and other indiscriminant downloading behaviors is why I wish there were larger data sets. There's likely a noise floor of downloads that are done automatically, or done as a matter of habit or compulsion.
     
  15. Silent_Buddha

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    Certainly not unethical. Perhaps the price won't resonate with consumers. But besides all the reasons that people have already listed (Youtube, reviews, word of mouth, forums, etc.), you can always wait for the inevitable sale. In this age of digital distribution a title will go on sale as soon as sales start to decrease significantly for a title.

    If reviews, youtube, whatever, describe a game you don't like you don't have to play it. If someone does that, then goes out and plays the pirated version through to the end, then I have absolutely ZERO respect for them. They liked it enough to play the game through, but still decided to spit on the developers and not pay for the privilege of playing it. Not saying that you do this, just pirates in general.

    Most pirates don't give a rats ass about the developers. This title had a demo available. This title has no DRM. This title isn't expensive. All reasons that pirates like to cite for pirating games.

    Guess what? Almost 94% of the people that are actually playing the game pirated it despite the developer doing everything within their power to make it consumer friendly. And that doesn't even count the number of copies of the legitimate game that was pirated due to there being no DRM. People that were given early access to the game put it up on torrent sites.

    Read that again, people that were given early access as a privilege put it up on torrent sites for people to pirate before the game was even released. So the people that are playing a pirated copy is quite a bit more than just 94%. Of a game that is cheap, with a demo, and no DRM.

    And using price reductions as a way to get pirates to pay is laughable. It will get a very small percentage to pony up the money, but unless they change their entire way of thinking it won't affect the vast majority. 0.99 USD games (less than 1 USD) get pirated for god's sake. It doesn't get cheaper than that unless it's free. Oh yeah, that's where the majority of pirates come in, all games are "free."

    Overpaid developers? This game was self funded by two individuals. Nobody paid them to develop the game. They didn't get paid to make this game. They paid money to make the game, and hoped that they would make back what they paid to make the game in addition to maybe making enough money to make another game.

    Pirates are scum of the earth, end of story.

    Regards,
    SB
     
  16. Zaphod

    Zaphod Remember
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    Here are a couple:

    http://piracy.americanassembly.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Copy-Culture.pdf
    http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/binaries/research/telecoms-research/online-copyright/Intro.pdf

    There are loads more, and I have yet so see a study that says otherwise. Content pirates are, on average, larger consumers of legal content than non-pirates. It's a fact.

    Now, that's not to say that piracy does not cause some content producers loose some sales due to piracy, but the ludicrous claims of the content lobbies (read: "Copyright Math") are little more than strawmen.
     
  17. tuna

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    Could you please back up this statement with some data?
     
  18. Daozang

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    Yup, you are telling me how it works, I'm telling you I don't like it.
    What is the bottom line though?

    I'll buy the exact number of games I have the means of purchasing, always depending on the free time I can allocate to playing them and that's not a lot.
    I don't think I can stress that out enough.

    I'm not downloading games, play them through, and suddenly declaring that they were garbage.
    I feel the moral obligation to reward the effort a group of people put on their product.
    Otherwise, I would never buy it.
    Having to explain this, feels, very wrong.

    Is someone missing money on my account? I guess, if you are that strict on applying all the rules.
    Someone did loose, someone else sold a game instead.
    I do have the option to minimize the risk. Albeit by taking an admittedly smaller risk called piracy. And I'll take it any day.

    I bought one game for both my consoles last year, (Uncharted 3), and I'll probably buy one more (The Last of US) till the end of this gens circle.
    On the other hand, I bought The Walking Dead (would never imagine I'd like that game), Far Cry 3, Tomb Raider, Dishonored, Sleeping Dogs (I hate GTA games) and Guild Wars 2 (does not apply).
    I bought two games I really like, but don't have the time to play as much as I'd want, one of which I'd never buy had I not tried the "demo" and one more that surprised me.

    Did I destroy the gaming industry in the process?
    I don't think so.
    Did I bent the rules to suit me? Yes I did.
    You can hold me accountable for that. But in the end, I spent more money than I would otherwise.

    I love the idea of a subscription were you can try anything before you guy it.
    And that is what I felt was really great from the PS4 unveiling.
     
    #58 Daozang, Apr 30, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 30, 2013
  19. Silent_Buddha

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    The first study is flawed as they rely on people telling the truth about their activities. For most people it's human nature to paint themselves in the best light, or in the light they wish to see themselves. The second study I have to look up the original study to see what their methodology was for estimating their numbers. It also uses surveys, thus bringing into question the veracity of their subjects.

    If I ask many of my aquaintances that pirate, they will almost all universally say that if they pirate a game and they like it, they will buy it. The reality is that less than 20% of those actually follow through despite them raving about how absolutely awesome a game was (Skyrim, for example). Many of them have played that game for over 100 hours. Guess what? Almost none of them have bought it, and all have played through the main game AND all the pirated DLCs.

    If I were to conduct a survey, greater than 80% of the pirates I am in regular contact with would say they buy games. But in reality less than 20% of them have actually bought a game unless they were forced to (MMOs and anything else that requires an online connection that isn't easily cracked). And money isn't a problem for many of them. Some of them spend upwards of 100 USD a month in Free to play MMOs.

    As Tuna mentioned, there has yet to be any study done on piracy that can take into account the duplicitous nature of many pirates that want to "prove" that piracy doesn't hurt. And what better way to justify their behavior than by lying on a survey seeking to acertain whether piracy hurts the industry.

    Regards,
    SB
     
  20. tuna

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