Pirates moan about getting pirated

Discussion in 'Politics & Ethics of Technology' started by Billy Idol, Apr 29, 2013.

  1. Wynix

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    1 torrented copy = 1 lost sale, amirite... :roll:


    Anyway, this is deliciously ironic of them.
     
  2. MrFloopy

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    Yes. It's not the sum total of lost sales but it certainly prevents there ever being a sale to that indiviual, so yes it is a lost sale.
     
  3. orangpelupa

    orangpelupa Elite Bug Hunter
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    Does the real version have piracy simulated? Or that feature only available exclusively on the officially cracked version?

    If piracy simulation available on official real game version and the game also allow me to kill piracy in other way than DRM (intended game bug, intended game feature, better marketing, better market reach easier payment method). i think i'll consider buying that game :D
     
  4. Phil

    Phil wipEout bastard
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    Not necessarely, but sadly mostly.

    There are cases where people who pirate goods see the value of what they're using and purchase a legit copy of it. Most of the time, this is probably not the case though.

    Piracy IMO is a whole lot more complicated than that you could look at it on a per item basis. Take Blurays for instance: When Bluray launched, it was considered a premium product - just like when DVD launched. A medium with high quality content that was carefully put together to form a good valuable product. Even the premium price made sense.

    Now, Bluray movies are slowly degenerating into a cheaply put together product. The best example perhaps: The Expendables 2. It launched here in the german speaking part of the EU with 2 DTS-HD language tracks (German and English) and two subtitle tracks, the forced-subtitles and the full subtitles track (both in German only). So you watch the movie in English and quickly realize that the beginning of the film where there is some turkish (or some other foreign language) being spoken which definately should be subtitled, but you only have the German ones included... Nice.

    So in effect, you've bought a broken product if you wanted to watch the English version of the movie. Or you buy the movie "the flowers of War" (with Christian Bale) and realize that pretty much most of the movie is unwatchable in English because like in Expendables 2, you only get the German subtitles and most of the movie is spoken in Mandarin and would require subtitles.

    I returned these two movies. Sadly, this isn't the only example, but one from hundreds. I would say that around 30% of the movies that ship on Bluray have this issue. How hard can it be to include the original language subtitles? :roll:

    /rant
     
  5. MrFloopy

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    Yes there is the odd occasion that happens, although it would be very much the minority.

    In your example (and as you state you used), that is what return policies are for and they cover games too. It's not an excuse.
     
  6. Dr Evil

    Dr Evil Anas platyrhynchos
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    I hope these devs will be able to sell their game and I never pirate games, but mostly I'm thinking that they pulled off a pretty genius marketing stunt, this thing will be reported all over the place and everyone hears about this game + sympathetic message should translate to pretty good sales, and probably has some carry over effects to their next games.
     
  7. Grall

    Grall Invisible Member
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    Like hell it does, and like hell it is.
     
  8. MrFloopy

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    Rubbish.
     
  9. Phil

    Phil wipEout bastard
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    It is? I'm sorry, it isn't. It used to be a minority, but it isn't anymore - at least in my region. I could name a large list of movies and they aren't just unknown movies either. Movies under the label of Warner Bros or Universal/Sony are pretty safe, but apart from these two, just about any other label uses some German studio to do the localised distributing of the movie and they all suffer from this.

    That's not entirely the point though and I'm not advocating piracy either. More to the point, piracy can not be looked at a per item basis. And I'm not talking about piracy by the few hundreds of nerds that actually upload these games/movies/music online, but the millions of people that actually consume piracy by downloading it and chosing such a copy over buying it at their local store.

    IMO - on consoles - piracy I think is not a big issue. Thanks to being able to access Live/PSN, it's quite easy to get any demo of a game and IMO the prices aren't that high, that the effort to find a pirated copy online would be prefered. I guess it's different on the PC where most users actively use the internet and find sites hosting pirated goods on a daily basis. Perhaps on the PC, most of its users have grown used to the idea that it's easier to pirate then to actually go out and buy a game. No idea really, I stopped playing on the PC about 10 years ago.

    I do think though that to effectively understand the topic why piracy happens, one has to look deeper and analyse the business in its entirety. Piracy can start with music and might influence if that same person will see it as ok to pirate other forms of entertainment like movies or games as an example.
     
  10. Grall

    Grall Invisible Member
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    Seriously?!

    There's literally tons of research that disproves your claim completely. Some research even shows that content pirates buy more music and movies than those who don't pirate.

    So rubbish on you, matey.
     
  11. Daozang

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    I always download the pirate version of my games.
    Perhaps because I used to do it when I was young, and didn't have money to spend on a game.
    The only difference between then and now, is that the last 15 years, I have a job.
    So I have a rule. If I like it (play the game more than just the tutorial or the first level), I buy it.

    That way, I never miss a game I couldn't imagine I'd like, and never waste money on games I don't like.
    I have more than a hundred games on Steam (and also surprisingly, a life), so I don't think I can be qualified as a pirate...
    I see the pirate version as a full demo.
    And it saved me lots of money.
     
    #31 Daozang, Apr 30, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 30, 2013
  12. MrFloopy

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    Sorry I was talking about the piracy bit re number who buy after pirating.

    I agree.
     
  13. MrFloopy

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    I've heard those claims for so many years. As Joker implied, the excuses are all so tired.

    While there may be a small amount who convert a pirated version into a legitimate one, the percentage is small. Even for those who do, they have no right to the pirated version in the first place. It is up to the copyright holder to decide how they wish their content to be distributed. The law is clear.
     
  14. orangpelupa

    orangpelupa Elite Bug Hunter
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    Yup. Buying an original game is hard and take too much time. It take much less time if buy pirated game and original game (use the pirated game install, but original key from original game). or just buy pirated game.

    Same thing happend with movies. Its much easier to buy pirated disc than original disc. But seeing it on the theater is much faster and have better quality so movie theater still very crowded. (i still cant book IRON MAN 3 )
     
  15. Daozang

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    Are you implying that it is unethical to pirate a copy, or simply that it is illegal?
    In the first case, I have to say, that asking 50 euros for a game like Aliens Colonial Marines, is highly unethical.
    In the second case, I have to simply say that you are right. :wink:
     
  16. Billy Idol

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    You are wrong. Asking 50 Euros is not unethical. Please remember that there is no human right for playing every game you want. As there is no law that everyone can steal a Porsche, if he personally thinks that it is unethical asking for 150k Euros. If it is to expensive and you don't like it, well...just don't buy it, play something you actually want to play and buy it.

    Playing a game and buying it after liking it is piracy, because you actually play games (even just the first level) which you did not pay for, and the devs/publisher don't want to (not a demo)...you are a pirate mister, whatever you say.

    PS: I heard all the arguments, some of my friends are stealing games as well, and there is always a reason for a pirate that he is right and others are wrong...nothing new.
     
  17. 3dilettante

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    Unless you are trying to make a slanted documentary movie, just asking doesn't make anybody do anything. It can be subjectively silly or incorrect in your eyes, but being silly doesn't make it unethical.

    Now, taking that much money, if said luxury good doesn't match what was advertised, can be unethical if you're misleading the customer to some extent. It would take a rather gross offense to make it cross the line to a legal offense, although there are some software examples that I'd be tempted to say have toed the line on that.
     
  18. Daozang

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    How exactly will I know that I don't like it if I won't try it?
    I have many games in my collection, that got mediocre reviews, but I actually liked them, and bought them.
    I also have lots of console games, (were it's not so easy to just download the "demo") that are sitting on a shelf collecting dust.

    Look I'm a huge fun of the "try it before you by it" mentality.
    And since I have that option, I'm going to take advantage of it.
    You are right on one thing, I really want to play the games I actually like.
    I also want to reward the developers that actually make games I like.


    Yeah, I was exaggerating on purpose.
    I should have put a ":razz:" at the end there. :smile:
     
    #38 Daozang, Apr 30, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 30, 2013
  19. Squilliam

    Squilliam Beyond3d isn't defined yet
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    Why doesn't someone just make an 'all you can eat' game subscription and be done with it? It worked for music and it helped with TV programs so why not do it for games?
     
  20. 3dilettante

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    Lets say there's no demo, no reviews, not a billion let's play videos on youtube, or a friend who has the game.
    You are free to weigh the risks of a bad purchase against the price, but there's no eliminating the risk that you'll put down money on something you don't like.
    That's called life.

    If there is a legitimate way to try the game, sure. If not, it's your right to factor the lack of it into your buying decision.
    The arrangment is that you're paying money for the game, not paying money for how much you like it.

    Everyone on both sides of the transaction has a world of things they'd like, but a smaller set of things they have the right to do.

    You pay for the games you procure or use, not just the ones you feel like paying for.

    Everyone involved is obligated to live by their part of a bargain. Neither party is supposed to incur disproportionate risk or obligation just so the other can walk away from reciprocity.
     
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