Physics Processor - AGEIA (Cool Demo)

Discussion in 'GPGPU Technology & Programming' started by rwolf, Mar 8, 2005.

  1. digitalwanderer

    digitalwanderer Dangerously Mirthful
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    Uh-oh, my geek-senses are giving me a bad tingle. :?

    I can't argue.

    If Ageia is going to shoot itself in the foot with the enthusiast community, (and by not being press friendly they are most definately giving us the finger), then I got no sympathy for 'em.

    Either they won't show what it can do or they CAN'T show what it can do, and considering how assignine their position is with "only developers" I'm gonna assume it's a case of they CAN'T since they just flat-out ain't got the support.

    If they could show it, they would....period.

    Sorry Chal, looks like you were right. :(
     
  2. KimB

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    Well, the final word hasn't been spoken yet. Depends upon how the developers respond to the tech. But I still suspect it won't be compelling enough to get off the ground.
     
  3. digitalwanderer

    digitalwanderer Dangerously Mirthful
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    I was ready to argue you on this one until the product launched giving them the benefit of the doubt and hoping for the best, but if they're too chickenshit to try and sell it to a friendly press then I'd say their chances right now are slim to nil. :?
     
  4. Dr. Ffreeze

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    Digi,

    Or they are big fans of Duke Nukem Forever and don't want to end up like them and feel secure enough to wait closer to the launch to REALLY wow us all.

    I feel it is too early to call this, and of course I hope for new cool things to spend my limited income on! =p
     
  5. digitalwanderer

    digitalwanderer Dangerously Mirthful
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    I was feeling it was too early to call, but if they don't have enough developer support already to at least make a press display.... :?

    Not a good indicator, not good at all.
     
  6. scificube

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    Hello Tom:

    If you were refering to my spill...I wasn't explicity referring to divying up the work. I was speaking of a system that would be responsive to overloading/underloading in real time.

    I was just trying to find a way to deal with dependencies as they developed and furthermore make sure those the player would see or could affect would be handled first. This would only be true in the cases where all the AI tasks couldn't be done in one pass where only giving AI to each entity in an RTS is probable that this would happen or an RPG where one chose not to simulate an i "intelligent" living world.

    I was also trying to split AI and physics up.

    If anyone has the time I would like to know if what I spun up is horrendous/doable good/bad. It would help me learn.

    The PPU:

    I would wonder if Aegia had nothing to show if Tim Sweeney elected to have Unreal Engine3.0 intergrate the Novodex engine and support hardware accelerated physics. It strikes me as odd that THIS fellow would do something for the heck of it. And of course all the console rumors that abound...they must have...something. I think they're holding their cards until a games makes them important because even though tech demos are impressive...no one plays tech demos.
     
  7. nelg

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    Do you think that MS could leverage the IP they got from ATI to develop something similar to the Ageias chip? Add it to the CPU and use it for other things as well (geometry?)?
     
  8. scificube

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    What IP would that be...fast14...something else?

    Fast14 should help anything that uses logic gates...that's allot of stuff.

    edit:

    Whoops that's on ATI's behalf. I doubt MS got more than nada from ATI with respect IPs.

    I also doubt MS wants or will be allowed to enter the HW market. The legal battle over whether their intentions to become monopolistic would make it not worth the effort by a longshot I feel.

    end edit:

    I don't think this could be added to CPUs. It's allot of trannies to add for a very specialized task which goes against CPUs being general purpose parts. You don't need physics or high end graphics capabilities to surf or for most applications.

    At least that makes sense to me.
     
  9. nelg

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    The IP they licenced gives them a good design on how build a SIMD processor. Combined with the rumor that they asked IBM to add something to the CPU which was difficult and presto: a perfectly good speculation. :)

    Furthermore, they are already in the HW market WRT the Xbox. Sure it would be a contentious issue in the PC sphere but in a closed proprietary market, like consoles, I don't think they would have any regulatory problems.
     
  10. gurgi

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    What do you think they would say about the Xbox, or the MS tv internet machine?

    If you put a frog in hot water, it will JUMP. But if you put him in cold water and heat it slowly....
     
  11. scificube

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    Here's how I look at the Xbox.

    MS is responsible for manufactuing none of it's parts used in the Xbox. The parts that are custom are to MSs specs (NV2A) but with respect to implementation I doubt much was divulged beyond what is common knowledge so to speak.

    Also MS was and is in no position yet to monoplize the console arena. Basically the government had/has a weak case.

    When MS starts to make parts...things will get ugly in America, in Europe, everywhere. In the PC domain especially but if MS were to get too powerful in the console arena it would happen there as well. Everyone is watching them. Everyone wants them to stay in their box and a great many want that box to be smaller and the sand to be filled with glass.

    The implications within the console realm are much to dire I feel as well. Being allowed to make parts there means they have a means to enter the PC realm. Red flags galore would go up...unless MS has holodecks lined up for a pinnance.

    I am unfamiliar with MS acquiring any knowledge that any else would not already have. Perhaps the rumored PPE cores of the CPU perhaps the SIMD like components of R500. I am remiss to think much was divulged but I am more reluctant to believe they would be allowed to do anything with such knowledge.

    I think the government(s) would admit UFOs are real before this happens or MS has taken a great fall from it's current position of power any ability to attain it again.

    I'll eat my shorts if it's allowed to happen in the near future.

    I don't hate MS. I realize others do and other simply fear them. The two main ingredients that drive humans to steal other's freedom(s).

    This is not to say MSs hands are clean. I may be naive...but not that naive.
     
  12. Fred

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    "It's allot of trannies to add for a very specialized task "

    You keep saying this, but I don't see why its true. Simply saying 'dedicated hardware' doesn't mean it is in any way faster or more applicable than doing it on a cpu with some smart code.

    The problem is fundamental, you need a general purpose architecture to deal with these types of calculations in a general way. I don't see anyway around it really.

    The most historical of all physics equations (arguably) is the two body gravitational problem (solved partially by Newton). You end up with an elliptical integral, that you'd need a lookup table value for, ok both hardware or software can do this fast. Now, the more applicable three and n body problem is only doable by computers. I challenge you to find a way to make this parralelizable. After struggling for twenty years, people found out that yes, its kinda/sorta possible to split things up in a way that computers might be able to solve efficiently. Great, we have one potential application for hardware. Except that now we have to tailor our pipelines for that particular app, which of course looks nothing like the type of math needed for say rigid body mechanics.
     
  13. KimB

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    You're not thinking games, though. While it is certainly possible to do an N-body simulation in a parallel way (though it'll require a lot of communication), game physics are a different beast. The important calculations for games are collision detection and contact interactions between solid or soft objects. These are easily parallelizable because collision detection and contact interactions are inherently local.

    Edit, Side Comment: as far as real physics is concerned, most calculations these days come down to either some sort of Markov Chain Monte Carlo, which is trivially parallelizable, or diagonalizing a matrix, which can also be parallelized fairly well.
     
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