[PC] RAGE

Discussion in 'PC Gaming' started by crusher_pt, Aug 14, 2009.

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  1. Sxotty

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    I hope they incorporate tesselation hints so that we can make the geometry nice on the PC to match the nice scenery textures.
     
  2. slapnutz

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    Didnt JC say they were using OpenGl for the gfx api side so thats means no Dx11 thus no tesselation?

    (going by memory here)
     
  3. Blazkowicz

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    I believe they'll use direct3D on Windows!

    I don't believe tesselation can work with their content system. basically If you add spikes and cracks, that maybe breaks their (multi-layer) data, as it was generated down to the pixel level, on static geometry, at content creation time.

    I don't know if there's a need either, they made it pretty clear it's the same game on all platforms.
     
  4. nightshade

    nightshade Interwebz Hijacker !
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    Didn't JC said that they are using OpenGL on PC,Direct3D on Xbox 360 & something else on PS3 ?
     
  5. Sxotty

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    Why can't they use tessellation in openGl?
     
  6. Blazkowicz

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    Is there even an AMD or NV OpenGL extension that does something with the tesselator?
     
  7. Arnold Beckenbauer

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    For the "DX9 tessellator" AMD has some extensions. No idea about DX11 tessellation.

    DX 11 Tessellation without DX11 hardware:
    Approximate Subdivision Surfaces in Valveā€™s Source Engine: http://www.nitianyun.com/notes_woch4.pdf

    But: For tessellation Rage would need an extra "mega displacement map", and this costs a lot of storage place (and time to create it).
     
  8. Silent_Buddha

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    I'm wondering if lack of tesselation in Idtech 5 is going to come back to bite them in the rear. As from what you guys are saying, it doesn't appear tesselation would be easy to use with the direction iD have gone with this.

    Regards,
    SB
     
  9. Richard

    Richard Mord's imaginary friend
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    JC has previously said (like a year+ ago) current geometry counts aren't enough for tessellation to replace manual LoD levels. As for the feature-de-jour TESSELLATION! I think Arnold's got it: it'd probably mean an extra DVD for PC and since we don't yet have any confirmation whether the PC version will come unfettered by the DVD count of the XBOX I'm thinking dupe+packaging costs still weigh heavily.

    SilentB: I don't know about tessellation (!!) will matter but from all the media out in the open, the game does appear too low-poly for the release window. Worse, the silhouettes are sometimes very noticeable on the rocks and boulders Rage will primarily display.

    NRP: don't bet on a shinier Borderlands. Although they've mentioned an inventory and "rpg elements" don't expect instanced dungeons, leveling mobs and randomly generated loot. I suppose some repeating quests, recurring bosses and randomly assigned inventory; if that.

    Btw SilentB on the D3W.org I was alerted that id's tech licensing website has been (almost) completely cleansed of references to either id Tech 4 and id Tech 5. Description, prices, everything.

    If you ask me, the Next DOOM ought to be using their sparse-voxel-octree-based renderer if they haven't managed prove it does NOT work for games. Rage is at best a late 2010 game, I don't see the next DOOM coming out before 2012 right in time for the next-gen. id Tech 5 with slightly higher poly-counts and less texture compression will not cut it. I shudder just thinking how many DVDs an id Tech 5 game using just 50% more texel density would take up.
     
  10. Neb

    Neb Iron "BEAST" Man
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    Should never aimed for 60fps at the cost of visuals when it will COST that MUCH visually!

    Straight down man... straight down.
     
  11. Sxotty

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    Well I drool at the prospect personally :)
     
  12. NRP

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    Goddamn id should just release this game already. Early to middle of the year would be good as there isn't much competition. Late 2010 is bad. It'll get destroyed by Reach (at least on 360).

    If Rage is halfway decent, it should do pretty well I think.
     
  13. slapnutz

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    I take it the 60fps idea was for the racing/vehicle sections and nothing to do with the on foot shooter mechanics portion of the game? (since Doom4 is 30hz). If thats the case, was Borderlands locked at 60fps on the consoles? (i've got the pc version).


    Personally, I would have thought moving your mouse around like crazy during shooter portions would benefit more rather than vehicle sections?:???:
     
  14. Silent_Buddha

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    Yeah, that's the big breakthrough I'm hoping for, that JC will be able to make some form of voxel use feasible. I still have a huge softspot for those ancient Voxel based DOS games. :)

    iD Tech 5 just seemed like a good tech even as recently as last year, but it seems like the industry is zigging while tech 5 is zagging.

    It's too bad Rage couldn't have launched last year... I wonder if the simultaneous console developement is pushing it out farther than they originally planned. I know Carmack mentioned they had to spend a lot of time and resources getting up to speed on PS3.

    Regards,
    SB
     
  15. Sxotty

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    Why doesn't one of you that has contacted him before ask about what would be needed to enable tessellation directly. I don't think it would be nearly as hard as you think to get certain things smoothed out a bit, but I also don't think it could use the HW to the fullest extent either b/c of the need for more data to do it correctly and effectively.
     
  16. Grall

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    Why can't you extract displacement information from regular normal maps that have been in games since Doom3? To my layperson's eye they seem to do pretty much the same thing.

    They wouldn't have to spend so much time to get up to speed on PS3 now if they hadn't spent so much time ignoring it for the past three years.

    Nobody to blame but themselves.
     
  17. Neb

    Neb Iron "BEAST" Man
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    Didn't they start to code for PS3 with that former senor ND dev several years ago?
     
  18. Sxotty

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    Yes nebula they have dealing with it for years and years. I think the problem is that the PC and xbox were similar enough that the codebase easily dealt with them. The PS3 with more divergent.
     
    #138 Sxotty, Jan 28, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 28, 2010
  19. Silent_Buddha

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    Huh? They started working on PS3 the moment it was released. They got it up to par in speed (sometimes faster, sometimes slower) at some point last year.

    I would hardly classify that as "ignoring it for the past three years."

    Regards,
    SB
     
  20. Richard

    Richard Mord's imaginary friend
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    We already know what it would take. My reply success average with JC is slightly below 50%, before the sale to ZeniMax. I think it would approach zero now.

    They aren't but even if they were, Rage doesn't have normal maps at run-time. The lighting for the static geometry is baked. We still don't know if it has a specular component or if it's a basic 3-channel MegaTexture.

    Dynamic geometry ought to have a 6/8 channel MT but then again, currently shown characters, vehicles, etc. looks decent to good.

    The XBOX drove development because:

    a) it came out sooner, so they had devkits sooner.
    b) hardware was better documented.
    c) at the time pc was stuck with the Intel-Prescott fiasco where CPU speeds barely budged unless you had AMD.

    Despite this they still started on PC/PS3 very early on. On the first engine demonstration back in june 2007 at WWDC JC already mentioned the four platforms would be running the same data at the same speed. He couldn't have made that statement if he hadn't worked hard on the PS3 to know whether that ought to be possible.

    Besides, while they were probably the first, they weren't the only devs complaining about PS3 being harder to work with.
     
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