OpenGL set for PS3 Linux?

Discussion in 'CellPerformance@B3D' started by Shifty Geezer, Feb 14, 2007.

  1. inefficient

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    There is no Linux distro right now that makes any use of the SPEs. Including YDL. At the OS level there probably never will be. They are all just sitting idle until you run an app that has been explicitly written to use them.
     
  2. inefficient

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    If it does get HW OpenGL acceleration it should be used as a target or competition category at Demo Scene events. I'd love that to happen.
     
  3. Shifty Geezer

    Shifty Geezer uber-Troll!
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    Since when have the Demo Scene needed graphics libraries?! They must be getting sissy in their old age!
     
  4. Arwin

    Arwin Now Officially a Top 10 Poster
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    It's just that their first choice, programming the hardware to the metal, isn't available for the RSX. So then instead it would be nice to, say, push the SPEs to the max, and render some of the results using OpenGL. But then you knew all that. ;)
     
  5. ADEX

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    Real demo coders don't even need graphics hardware!
     
  6. Shifty Geezer

    Shifty Geezer uber-Troll!
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    Exactly. I know Amiga demo sceners got a realtime raytracer running on the audio chip. I'm pretty sure the ST had a complete DOOM clone running of the IO controller :p
     
  7. Arwin

    Arwin Now Officially a Top 10 Poster
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    Well, I don't know about that, but I do know they had a 16-player first person shooter using the Midi-ports on the Atari ST when nobody had even heard of Wolfenstein 3D. (the awesome Midi-Maze, featuring a 3D maze and giant, dot-shooting Pac-Mans :D )
     
  8. SPM

    SPM
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    Linux resources can be very small because you can recompile the kernel to leave out whatever you don't need. The newest versions of Linux can run on 4MB RAM (if unnecessary apps and kernel modules are removed) http://www.bluemug.com/research/els/els.shtml.

    Embedded Linux distributions can go down further - http://www.lynuxworks.com/products/whitepapers/xp-vs-linux.php3
    so the Linux kernel will not be a huge overhead over whatever will be required to run a game.

    Also it would be possible to boot whatever is used to boot Linux to boot directly into a game. I think therefore that Sony will offer a slower or less functional OpenGL if they do and access to the hardware will go through the PS3 DRM to prevent it being bypassed. If it runs the things used by Compiz/Beryl and movie acceleration is available via RSX, than I will be happy. If it does games acceleration at reasonable speed to allow homebrew games to run, that is a bonus.

    How about a special boot mode to allow Linux games that boot off official Sony PS3 game disks to run OpenGL at full speed, plus a home brew dev kit disk that if booted off allows Linux games to run at full speed. This would allow free development and distribution of less graphics-intensive Linux homebrew software eg. utilities and desktop applications and games like Sims or the sort of games you would fine under desktop accessories. If you splashed out for a (not too expensive) homebrew devkit and associated dev tools, you would be able to create and run Linux games at full speed, and have them put it on official Sony game disks to run under Linux with no graphics restrictions if you wanted to market them commercially.

    There are so many viable options that I can't see any excuse for Sony not to offer OpenGL for PS3 Linux in some form.
     
  9. ERP

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    In this case I believe that access to RSX is actualhy restricted by the hypervisor, so all you have is a frame buffer. But as you point out that's not stopped demo groups in the past.
     
  10. zed

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    my thoughts exactly, here is the perfect machine for all those realtime raytracer guys to show what theyre capable of, to an potentual audience of millions
    ( true without the graphics card u are missing the 'first hit' property (though real raytracers wouldnt do that anyways :razz: ) )
     
  11. popper

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    well its not been done yet...., so perhaps their not capable of it!.
    (after all, if they could , they would, and get the credit for it!)
    this is as far as someone got , putting up a
    https://ssl.keshi.org/projects/ps3/trac.fcgi/browser/SDL/trunk almost 3 months ago and NOTHING since...

    looks like everyone (JAP/US)so far is waiting on the UK/EU guys to do the hard work and release it ,perhaps we might see an Altivec/spu enhanced/patched openGL ES when its released over there?.:wink:
     
    #31 popper, Feb 18, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 18, 2007
  12. Rolf N

    Rolf N Recurring Membmare
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    I have a few plans, but for fractals, not ray-tracers. I'll have to wait until the end of March though.
    It would be great if we could get accelerated OpenGL. Free idea for Sony: just expose a multitexturing pipeline with the basic combiners. No shaders. It would still be an enormous step forward for homebrew development and prototypes, but the limit to reasonably achievable graphics fidelity would ensure that there's no free-riding competition at all to licensed developers.
     
  13. baten

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    I have a "stupid" question - please dont get angry at me if it was answered before and if it's slightly off-topic:
    How feasible do you think console emulation on the PS3 Linux will be?
    I am thinking PS2, Xbox and GameCube emulation, not older consoles.

    As for why would anyone want a PS2 emulator on the PS3 Linux, when the PS3 is retrocompatible - I think it's evident - to play "free" downloaded games.
     
  14. mazarax

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    I've implemented a ray-caster on the SPU.
    http://ps3computing.blogspot.com

    As did others.
    Mine is not fast enough (420x420 pixels at 20fps or so), even though I do 8 simultaneous triangle-ray intersections per SPU, and use 6 SPUs.
    IBM supplies a vector-lib that can test a single ray against 8 triangles with efficient SIMD code.

    And these guys can do ray-casting on a heightfield for 1920x1080 in real-time:

    http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=r...OuK2-7I_wqe88j0I=&sig2=-yyW6LjShbSPliN9oI8eSg
     
  15. inefficient

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    Nice blog
     
  16. inefficient

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    The link you have was for the SDL library. Maybe this one guy was doing some customizations to it. But he is not the owner of SDL and ps3 already has a working version of SDL. If it didn't we could not use apps like VLC, mplayer, mame etc.


    He does has this other small project that I had not seen before:


    Interesting how now several people are having fun with Wiimote on ps3linux development. I want a Wiimote now too even though I don't own a Wii.
     
  17. SuperDre

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    By now you would know why anyone wants a PS2 emulator on the PS2 linux... Since the new PS3's don't have PS2 emulation anymore..
    But why not for older consoles? I still play a lot of older consoles games (even more than new games), would be great to play them via the PS3 on my big screen..
     
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