chavvdarrr
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open letter to ATi on gamers-depot
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Some fair points in the article, but it's too biased and hateful for my liking.
(They have a problem with ATi dumping the X700 for a card that is better at the same pricepoint? :| How does that hurt anyone? )
(They have a problem with ATi dumping the X700 for a card that is better at the same pricepoint? :| How does that hurt anyone? )
Just skimmed through it and one daft bit that stuck out was the claim that ATI's "HyperMemory" was just a wait and see response to NV's "TurboCache". HyperMemory was announced months ago wasn't it, so how can it be a response to TurboCache which was announced earlier this week?
I'll agree with Digi that the article seems somewhat biased and has an unpleasant tone. They could have made the same criticisms without the 'attitude' - I, for one, would have taken it much more seriously without the childishness.
I'll agree with Digi that the article seems somewhat biased and has an unpleasant tone. They could have made the same criticisms without the 'attitude' - I, for one, would have taken it much more seriously without the childishness.
Hateful? I must have missed that part of the letter, it seemed pretty reasonable in it's manner and I agree with most of it's points. However, it would have come across as more even-handed if they'd acknowledged NV's failure to supply NV40 in sufficient volume to the market as well. Both companies share a myriad of shortcomings when it comes to the marketing of their respective products so let's not be fooled into thinking NV are above criticism themselves.digitalwanderer said:
So the solution is that hw review sites (like and including B3D) should not publish reviews of hardware provided straight from IHVs until such hw have gone retail?
B3D will agree to this.
As long as ALL the other hw review sites agree to it FIRST.
This article is a disturbing one... and while this article was targetted at ATI, NVIDIA has also been "guilty" of this (see the GeForce6).
The problem should not be placed solely on the IHV(s) but on media outlets as well. B3D can do nothing but trust the words of IHVs when it comes to "Oh, it'll be availabel come <insert timeframe>" and report it as such in a p/review of a product that only media outlets are privileged to have... for the longest time in certain cases.
B3D will agree to this.
As long as ALL the other hw review sites agree to it FIRST.
This article is a disturbing one... and while this article was targetted at ATI, NVIDIA has also been "guilty" of this (see the GeForce6).
The problem should not be placed solely on the IHV(s) but on media outlets as well. B3D can do nothing but trust the words of IHVs when it comes to "Oh, it'll be availabel come <insert timeframe>" and report it as such in a p/review of a product that only media outlets are privileged to have... for the longest time in certain cases.
Coz said:
There's another article today looking at availabilities and they point out that NV40 has been more available in retail and the smaller SI's, but also that NV40 hasn't had the OEM takup that ATI had.
I don't think the article is biased - thats not Duanes style, he's just looking at it from the way things may appear to the geneal public. For instance, I could pick holes in some of the flip flop comments but, for all intents and purposes thats the way that some people are percieiving it at the moment and ATI would be best served to clarify those points.
Yeah, I'd like to see the IHVs distribute press samples of new cards *only* when they're close to shipping by the AIB and SI guys. The IHV should have a good idea when that really is and to not send out review samples months before then.Reverend said:
Leaving it up to the hw sites to determine when that time is would be a bad idea because someone would always want to be first with the scoop and slap a review up the moment they got a sample from the IHV.
Silly article, IMO, from my skimming of the first two pages.
I'm not sure dual-slot cooling is something to be either proud or ashamed of, yet I'm not sure which Duane is railing against. ATi is going to it almost two years after nVidia did, and only with its top end card (IIRD, both the 5800U and 5800 were dual slot). And the big deal re: dual slot from the customer's POV (which I guess is the point of this article) was noise, not size.
Does Duane know the difference b/w AGP-PCIe and PCIe-AGP bridging? Has he seen some benchmarks?
As for HyperMemory, not only was it announced before TurboCache, but wasn't it also reviewed before it with their RS480 MBs?
Why should I take a ranty editorial seriously if the author can't even get the facts right?
But those were some funny reasons against a bridge chip from ATi. "Increases power-on delay." Seriously?
Good pictures, too.
I'm not sure dual-slot cooling is something to be either proud or ashamed of, yet I'm not sure which Duane is railing against. ATi is going to it almost two years after nVidia did, and only with its top end card (IIRD, both the 5800U and 5800 were dual slot). And the big deal re: dual slot from the customer's POV (which I guess is the point of this article) was noise, not size.
Does Duane know the difference b/w AGP-PCIe and PCIe-AGP bridging? Has he seen some benchmarks?
As for HyperMemory, not only was it announced before TurboCache, but wasn't it also reviewed before it with their RS480 MBs?
Why should I take a ranty editorial seriously if the author can't even get the facts right?
But those were some funny reasons against a bridge chip from ATi. "Increases power-on delay." Seriously?
Good pictures, too.Pete said:Silly article, IMO, from my skimming of the first two pages.
I'm not sure dual-slot cooling is something to be either proud or ashamed of, yet I'm not sure which Duane is railing against. ATi is going to it almost two years after nVidia did, and only with its top end card (IIRD, both the 5800U and 5800 were dual slot). And the big deal re: dual slot from the customer's POV (which I guess is the point of this article) was noise, not size.
Does Duane know the difference b/w AGP-PCIe and PCIe-AGP bridging? Has he seen some benchmarks?
As for HyperMemory, not only was it announced before TurboCache, but wasn't it also reviewed before it with their RS480 MBs?
Why should I take a ranty editorial seriously if the author can't even get the facts right?
But those were some funny reasons against a bridge chip from ATi. "Increases power-on delay." Seriously?
Can you link us to the review of this architecture with the RS480 motherboard? I would like to read it.
Personally, I thought this article had some very valid points. I would have even threw in a few other things such as the beta drivers issue. As for those who bring up Nvidia, why? Just because ATI is the subject of the article doesn't mean that Nvidia has to be included or criticized. They have their shortcomings and we all know that, but they aren't the entity being questioned. There is no reason he or anyone else couldn't come up with a set of questions concerning Nvidia reversing policies on certain matters. The fact of the matter is this one is addressing ATI's policies and their "apparent" reversal on them.
Digi, why is this "hateful"? Your own preferences clouding your judgment? What has ATI done for him that should dictate how he should question them? I saw no "hate" nor disrespect in them. If that was hateful, then most news/media outlet employees would be unemployed.
And for those of you that decided to "skim" the article then make your oh so important opinion public, you obviously had made up your mind prior to "skimming" through it. Thank you for telling the world you are more intelligent than he is.
DaveB, you notice the gazillion-post members who express their opinions exactly the same post after post after post? I do. And yes, it is annoying. Sure, there is this thing called free-speech. But that free-speech right also allows you or another moderator to actually stand up and demand better. I personally have perceived less posting of any interest being done here. I don't know the exact answer to why I perceive that. That is at least my observation. Take it for what it's worth if you want. I visit here hoping that just once, there could be an interesting conversation about 3d/3d technology without the same IHV fanatics turning it into a pissing match. I think you should demand better. Actually, I would applaud it.
i find this biatching about availability to be funny. it would be a problem if ati was the only game in town. they are not. if ati decides that the agp market is not where they want to be at this point, that is their decision. dont like it? buy nvidia.
i read the the article a few times and it is biased. it is the culmination of duane being biased against ati for awhile now. maybe i'm reading too much into it but, you can practically taste it in all his articles regarding ati. i sent him a nice email refutting his silly points in this article, and questioning his motives. hopefully i get a reply.
i read the the article a few times and it is biased. it is the culmination of duane being biased against ati for awhile now. maybe i'm reading too much into it but, you can practically taste it in all his articles regarding ati. i sent him a nice email refutting his silly points in this article, and questioning his motives. hopefully i get a reply.
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