nVIDIA's position in next gen market?

London Geezer

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with all this talk about PS3 and Xbox2 and ATI, IBM, Toshiba and all this people involved in what now seems a VERY profitable market, i wonder...

why are we not hearing anything from Nvidia?

are they going to stay out of the market?

if i were them i would provide services, be it hardware or software-wise, to all of the 3 competitors, so that they will make money whoever comes out winner. and even then they would make a lot of money even if they were to "ally" with someone who isn't the market leader.

but i guess contract restrictions will apply so that if someone has ATI in their console they wont be able to get anything with Nvidia written on it...

i just cannot believe that a big player like Nvidia would stay out of this market seen how much profit they could make out of it... and admittedly, they could give quite something in terms of general expertise... Nv have been quite "depressed" lately after the Nv30 flop, and this whole mith of ATI taking the spot as leader in the PC graphics market...

guess we'll just have to wait and see...
 
Sometimes "myths" have a way of making themselves come true :LOL: I bought ATI because of value/performance, so while it may be a "myth" about them being the leaders, they certainly aren't a bad choice. I think Nvidia will get their act together and become competitive in the short term, but not being in any next generation console could hurt them in the long term with name recognition.
 
london-boy said:
i just cannot believe that a big player like Nvidia would stay out of this market seen how much profit they could make out of it...

It doesn't matter how much you want to be in the market. There's this thing called "competition". And if the competitor is better positioned to meet the cusomter's needs (whatever they are), then the competitor will be in, and not you.

...and admittedly, they could give quite something in terms of general expertise... Nv have been quite "depressed" lately after the Nv30 flop, and this whole mith of ATI taking the spot as leader in the PC graphics market...

What is this "myth" of which you speak? (How are you defining "leader", and who is propagating a myth about it?)
 
Joe DeFuria said:
What is this "myth" of which you speak? (How are you defining "leader", and who is propagating a myth about it?)


sorry, should have been clearer... i call it myth because neither Nvidia not ATI are actually the "market leader" since we all know that there are far more integrated Intel (or others) graphics solutions sold than any Nvidia or ATI graphics cards... but i could be wrong, if i am please do correct me...
 
london-boy said:
sorry, should have been clearer... i call it myth because neither Nvidia not ATI are actually the "market leader" since we all know that there are far more integrated Intel (or others) graphics solutions sold than any Nvidia or ATI graphics cards... but i could be wrong, if i am please do correct me...

Actually, if you measure "market leader" in terms of graphics chips market share (be it desktop, notebook, intergrated, etc.), I think nVidia has the lead. (I'll have to check sources though.)

Though indeed, Intel has been taking huge chunks of it with their integrated chips, and I expect it to just keep growing at nVidia's (and ATI's) expense.

There is other "leadership" that people commonly talk about, and that's "technology" leadership. Both ATI and nVidia share that, ATI currently leading at this time IMO, though it's likely to swing back and forth for while...
 
i think i actually read it on the 3D graphics cards and technology boards here at B3D that Intel sells far more integrated chips solutions than ATI and Nvidia sell their cards... quite rightly so, at the end of the day all the computers in offices (such as the one i'm using right about now) have integrated graphics chips. they're crap but for offices running word and excel they're more than enough...
and office computers are a whole lot when u think about it.
still, back on topic...
isn't the market more than big enough for Nvidia to enter in some form or another?

MS has been confirmed to be with ATI this time around, so i guess nVIDIA aint going that way... Nintendo? Sony? mmmm...
 
Intel still has the lead overall (At least according to the last Mercury research), but that doesn't put them on the "cutting edge" of graphics anything. Which is why the overall market is very hard to track and predict, due to lots of complexifications. ^_^

Also, we'll see just how Intel fares when ATi's integrated chipset for Pentiums hits. (And if the rumors of nVidia picking up an Intel license for later nForces pans out.) That will be a fight into and of itself. ^_^

Also, Nintendo was confirmed to be continuing their ATi partnership for the next Gamecube a while ago. The big remaining question mark is Sony. Of course that is one BIIIIIIIG question mark!
 
cthellis42 said:
Also, we'll see just how Intel fares when ATi's integrated chipset for Pentiums hits. (And if the rumors of nVidia picking up an Intel license for later nForces pans out.) That will be a fight into and of itself. ^_^

I'm really looking forward to that one as well! Intel vs. ATI vs. nvidia...FIGHT!
 
cthellis42 said:
Also, Nintendo was confirmed to be continuing their ATi partnership for the next Gamecube a while ago. The big remaining question mark is Sony. Of course that is one BIIIIIIIG question mark!


oh... really...? must have missed that one...

so, nvidia+sony.... mmmm don't know about that...i mean, it would only be beneficial to Sony if Nv were to get involved in any part of PS3, and as it stands i wouldnt rule it out completely. at the end of the day we seem to know a whole lot about PS3's CPU but nothing about its graphic part.... we'll have to see...
 
london-boy said:
beneficial to Sony if Nv were to get involved in any part of PS3

Why so? Assuming the two companies do reach some sort of agreement, you can bet that there will be a benefit for both, obviously.
 
PS3's Rasterizer is one of the bigger mysteries. Simply put; we know very very little to nothing about it.

The only thing we see or know about it comes from looking at the design of Visualizer in the Cell patent. But of course we know no spec no fillrate, polygon drawing ability, nothing.

This is where Nvidia could be helping Sony, with the Rasterizing part of PS3. There are hints that they are doing so.. Mr Jen calling ps3 a miracle machine and backing away from Xbox2, not to mention the reports that analysts are expecting Nvidia to be in ps3 in one form or another.

Even the july 2003 EGM has Nvidia stating that Sony bypassing their Shaders and not including them on their GPU would be a mistake. EGM at this point inserted that Sony's engineers could make their own Cell based GPU dedicated to crunching graphics.(Visualizer from what we see, it's definately Cell based)
 
Phil said:
london-boy said:
beneficial to Sony if Nv were to get involved in any part of PS3

Why so? Assuming the two companies do reach some sort of agreement, you can bet that there will be a benefit for both, obviously.

yeah well of course it would be a 2-way benefit. Sony would benefit in some way otherwise they would just "do it themselves" which at this point i think they are more than capable of anyway. i guess Nvidia's cut-and-paste DX "experience" would help in some kind of middleware available for developers who do not have the resources to write their own engines. just like i expect IBM to take care of the OS part of PS3, one would expect Nvidia to either help in the GPU design or in the IQ-shaders side of things. maybe both.

Nvidia would certainly benefit from Sony's cash AND (but this is all speculation of course) from the Cell design. now, Nvidia implementing Cell design on their PC graphics cards is a thought that has been running around my head for quite some time, although i admittedly fail to see how that could be feasible in any practical way.
 
Hey now, nVidia has a place in the 2005 console wars. Hell, they're on the job in Redmond right now! ..sweeping floors..
 
Jabjabs said:
ps3+ ati .... That would be one crazy victory for ati.

That would be just crazy, Ati would become the most arrogant company to ever if that happened. :D



arrogant? i'd say they would be BUSY more than anything...
still, thats not going to happen, and i'm amazed by the fact that ATi is involved in 2 of the 3 big contenders and nVIDIA is *that we know of* doing nothing about it...
 
Here's my opinion on the matter based on some info I was given many months ago. One of the biggest reasons why NVIDIA won't have a hand in PS3 and doesn't have a hand in Xbox2 is that they don't want to sell IP. They want to sell a chip like they did with Xbox1. Microsoft didn't want that kind of deal for Xbox2 and Sony sure as hell don't want that for PS3. Sony is too proud to even consider buying a chip from a company. The only way they would is if a company sold them IP instead. With that said, I believe it's highly likely NVIDIA will be setting this generation out, but I doubt NVIDIA has a problem with that considering their problems with Microsoft.

Tommy McClain
 
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