NVIDIA to create the RTX API with Microsoft

Discussion in 'Rendering Technology and APIs' started by DavidGraham, Mar 16, 2018.

  1. DavidGraham

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2009
    Messages:
    2,581
    Likes Received:
    2,134
    It seems NVIDIA has a new GameWorks library for Volta GPUs, this library is exclusive to NVIDIA, it's for ray tracing certain effects such as AO, reflections, and area shadows. The library is co developed with Microsoft to be integrated with DirectX Raytracing API and is being adopted by these engines and developers: Unreal, Unity, Frostbite, 4A (Metro Exodus), and Remedy (Northlight engine?).

    [​IMG]

    https://videocardz.com/newz/nvidia-to-announce-rtx-technology
    https://wccftech.com/nvidia-gameworks-ray-tracing-api-microsoft/
     
    pharma likes this.
  2. 3dilettante

    Legend Alpha

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2003
    Messages:
    8,008
    Likes Received:
    2,518
    Location:
    Well within 3d
    That level of co-development may have implications going forward. Microsoft wouldn't go in on this if it were to remain niche.

    Does this have similar implications for Volta derivatives in the market? If this was for DX-based games and engines, it would be really niche if it only covered the Volta products we know of now.
     
    Grall likes this.
  3. DavidGraham

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2009
    Messages:
    2,581
    Likes Received:
    2,134
    It seems it implies next gen is going to be Volta, not Ampere or Turing.
    Also the wording doesn't make RTX exclusive to Volta, it just states it's heavily optimized for it.
     
    pharma and Picao84 like this.
  4. Malo

    Malo YakTribe.games
    Legend Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2002
    Messages:
    6,683
    Likes Received:
    2,728
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Likely limited to Volta for 12 months after release of the gaming line then magically optimized for Pascal after that.
     
  5. iroboto

    iroboto Daft Funk
    Legend Regular Subscriber

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2014
    Messages:
    7,067
    Likes Received:
    5,330
    IIRC Many DX12.1+ features have only been on Nvidia GPUs for quite some time until Vega?; MS' relationship with nvidia, made a lot of those custom features part of DX12 feature set.
     
  6. Samwell

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2011
    Messages:
    109
    Likes Received:
    123
    None of that stuff was custom. Intel had parts of the features much longer and all DX12.1 features already in skylake.

    DirectX Raytracing API means it'S vendor agnostic, that sounds good. Probably all vendors are involved there, but maybe parts are taken from Nvs own efforts, like DX12 took parts from mantle.
     
  7. DavidGraham

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2009
    Messages:
    2,581
    Likes Received:
    2,134
    Highly unlikely it's vendor agnostic, it's called RTX and is an effort by NVIDIA. They are the one announcing it at GDC.
     
  8. Samwell

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2011
    Messages:
    109
    Likes Received:
    123
    RTX is an Nvidia effort and Nvidia exclusive. This DirectX Raytracing API is of course vendor agnostic.
     
  9. Jawed

    Legend

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    Messages:
    10,853
    Likes Received:
    722
    Location:
    London
    Coming to consoles first :twisted:
     
  10. DavidGraham

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2009
    Messages:
    2,581
    Likes Received:
    2,134
  11. Jawed

    Legend

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    Messages:
    10,853
    Likes Received:
    722
    Location:
    London
    So it would seem that "primitive operations" such as:

    from https://www.anandtech.com/show/12547/expanding-directx-12-microsoft-announces-directx-raytracing

    present the opportunity to accelerate in hardware.

    The age old problem with *-tracing is the coherency of memory accesses that are performed, not the math. So a particular kind of memory acceleration/hierarchy might be the cornerstone of actual acceleration. It might be a particular kind of coalescing (which is a way to think about delta colour compression).

    There have been attempts at hardware implementations in the past which have promised astonishingly high performance, but they seem to have failed. The implication, though, is that hardware acceleration can be transformative.

    The other side of the coin may well be that this uses ray-tracing for a subset of rendering tasks - so we're still years away from purely *-traced games. The original promise of *-tracing is that it massively simplifies graphics rendering, since modern realtime graphics is just a very very very long chain of physically plausible kludges. So this is going to be another kludge in the toolchest.

    I personally find it worrying that NVidia talks about de-noising. One can argue that temporal anti-aliasing is a kind of denoising and that works great. Except, well, it doesn't in my opinion, but there's plenty of time to have that argument.
     
    DavidGraham and Malo like this.
  12. DeanoC

    DeanoC Trust me, I'm a renderer person!
    Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2003
    Messages:
    1,469
    Likes Received:
    185
    Location:
    Viking lands
    Noise is the achilles heel of ray-tracing/path-tracing, its not solved in the offline world, so shouldn't expect it in the real-time. However there are smart people spending a lot of time on denoising including our very own Nao AKA Marco Salvi (tho hasn't posted at B3D for a long time). Its usually spatio-temporal in class and deep learning is being applied to help find the best result from the lowest number of samples.
    Noise and AA are both sides of the same coin, how to get the best visuals from as few samples as you can.
     
  13. DavidGraham

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2009
    Messages:
    2,581
    Likes Received:
    2,134
    They say it's there to prevent time sapping. So maybe not that integral in the grand scheme of things?
    https://www.geforce.com/whats-new/articles/nvidia-rtx-real-time-game-ray-tracing
     
  14. Jawed

    Legend

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    Messages:
    10,853
    Likes Received:
    722
    Location:
    London
    I think you'll find it's the opposite. De-noising is essential for real time ray tracing, because it produces a huge amount of noise.

    Of course the Gameworks implementation is there to maximise the number of games that come only with NVidia optimised de-noising and other hardware will be maximally disadvantaged at the same time. Because lazy devs, who don't like their time to be sapped by pesky details like de-noising.
     
    DavidGraham likes this.
  15. Ethatron

    Regular Subscriber

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2010
    Messages:
    844
    Likes Received:
    245
    Hmm, topic reminds me of Quake/Halflife radiosity lightmaps. Devs will do what's needed, but not what's possible.
     
  16. pharma

    Veteran Regular

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    2,739
    Likes Received:
    1,470
  17. Kaotik

    Kaotik Drunk Member
    Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2003
    Messages:
    7,950
    Likes Received:
    1,655
    Location:
    Finland
    Little late to the party but to my understanding, DXR can (and surely will) be hardware accelerated. RTX works with DXR to enable AI-based denoising which utilizes Volta-hardware (probably tensor-cores), but RTX is not part of DXR per se nor is it "DXR hardware acceleration", it's no different really from GameWork-modules. Or then I've understood something really wrong.
     
  18. pharma

    Veteran Regular

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    2,739
    Likes Received:
    1,470
    #19 pharma, May 9, 2018
    Last edited: May 10, 2018
  19. DavidGraham

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2009
    Messages:
    2,581
    Likes Received:
    2,134
    See here:
    https://forum.beyond3d.com/posts/2031581/
     
    pharma likes this.
Loading...

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Beyond3D has been around for over a decade and prides itself on being the best place on the web for in-depth, technically-driven discussion and analysis of 3D graphics hardware. If you love pixels and transistors, you've come to the right place!

    Beyond3D is proudly published by GPU Tools Ltd.
Loading...