Nvidia Post-Volta (Ampere?) Rumor and Speculation Thread

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CarstenS said:
As you implied already, apart from the bleeding edge, processes suitability largely is a function of money.
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And it seems "enough" for nVidia. 20x0 rtx are made by samsung too, right ? The process seems fine... In real gfx products it's not like tsmc's are destroying samsung's...
 
Rootax said:
And it seems "enough" for nVidia. 20x0 rtx are made by samsung too, right ? The process seems fine... In real gfx products it's not like tsmc's are destroying samsung's...
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Turings (GTX16/RTX20) are manufactured on TSMC 12nm (aka improved 16nm)
Edit: the only(?) NVIDIA GPU manufactured so far at Samsung is GP107
 
Kaotik said:
Turings (GTX16/RTX20) are manufactured on TSMC 12nm (aka improved 16nm)
Edit: the only(?) NVIDIA GPU manufactured so far at Samsung is GP107
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Ah you're right. I don't know why I had in mind that nVidia was doing Turings with a custom Samsung 12nm solution. I'm getting old : /
 
From that link

''This makes 2020 all the more exciting since we will have full-fledged GPU lineups from all three vendors, Intel, NVIDIA and AMD.''

Interesting indeed, any more info on RTX3000 series, like how many TF they will be, RT etc?
 
DavidGraham said:
The CEO put the argument to rest today when he announced that NVIDIA will be using 7nm from both TSMC and Samsung for their next gen GPUs, with the majority of orders from TSMC.

https://wccftech.com/nvidia-tsmc-7nm-next-generation-gpu-ampere/
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Huh, consumer GPUs from TSMC and professional line (Volta successor) from Samsung? I know a few mobile companies will tape out the same SOC on both foundries, but afaik it's not common and seems expensive.

Either way, sad to see Samsung get shorter shrift from most companies. This just seems to confirm TSMC offers the better process right now, but with all of 2 contract cutting edge foundries left everyone prioritizing one over the other is the slow path to a monopoly. At least AMD has announced they'll not be jumping on TSMCs 5nm right quick, leaving the possibility of switching to Samsung circa 2021/2 open.
 
Frenetic Pony said:
Huh, consumer GPUs from TSMC and professional line (Volta successor) from Samsung? I know a few mobile companies will tape out the same SOC on both foundries, but afaik it's not common and seems expensive.
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You'll never build HPC GPUs at Samsung, TSMC is a too strong partner in this space and executing flawless. Samsung would be a too high risk, even if their process wouldn't be that bad. Low-Midrange should be again from Samsung, like we had it with pascal. It might even be, that Samsungs process is so bad, that Nvidia had to switch to TSMC with consumer products. How much delay would you get if you do that? I think that i read about ~6 months sometime ago, if you switch pretty late in the design process (still before tapeout of course).

Either way, sad to see Samsung get shorter shrift from most companies. This just seems to confirm TSMC offers the better process right now, but with all of 2 contract cutting edge foundries left everyone prioritizing one over the other is the slow path to a monopoly. At least AMD has announced they'll not be jumping on TSMCs 5nm right quick, leaving the possibility of switching to Samsung circa 2021/2 open.
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Yes, TSMC already has more or less a monopoly, but the companies have no choice. You need the best process to compete and TSMC is just superior. It seemed as if Samsung might have some advantage with EUV, but it turned out no. Samsungs roadmap is also very weak compared to TSMC, so TSMC will be 1-2 years ahead in the future. Only their 3GAA timeframe seems aggressive, but they had so many delays with their process, that i wouldn't take their roadmap seriously.
 
Some other reasons for staying with TSMC's foundry is their 5nm advantages.
Now, TSMC is readying its new 5nm process for the first half of 2020. TSMC’s 5nm technology is 15% faster with 30% lower power than 7nm. A second version of 5nm, due out next year, is 7% faster. Both versions also will use EUV.
...
Meanwhile Samsung recently rolled out 5nm, which is due out in the first half of 2020. Compared to 7nm, Samsung’s 5nm finFET technology provides up to a 25% increase in logic area with 20% lower power or 10% higher performance.
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https://semiengineering.com/5nm-vs-3nm/
 
Frenetic Pony said:
Huh, consumer GPUs from TSMC and professional line (Volta successor) from Samsung? I know a few mobile companies will tape out the same SOC on both foundries, but afaik it's not common and seems expensive.

Either way, sad to see Samsung get shorter shrift from most companies. This just seems to confirm TSMC offers the better process right now, but with all of 2 contract cutting edge foundries left everyone prioritizing one over the other is the slow path to a monopoly. At least AMD has announced they'll not be jumping on TSMCs 5nm right quick, leaving the possibility of switching to Samsung circa 2021/2 open.
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But that is not what was being said when Nvidia announced their Samsung deal. Didn't nvidia come right out and say (8 months ago) that they were shopping elsewhere because the price TSMC was charging for 7nm...? And that Samsung EUV process was much cheaper, etc..


And, nobody has mentioned the fact that Dr Lisa Su signed a deal with TSMC over 3 years ago, for exclusive rights for 7nm TSMC in 2018. Which didn't allow Nvidia to adopt and have volume orders last year. Thus, forcing Nvidia to seek Samsung and belay their new architecture. Which is still being shopped around, as nobody has heard of Ampere/Hopper being taped out.
 
w0lfram said:
But that is not what was being said when Nvidia announced their Samsung deal.
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They didn't announce any deals.

w0lfram said:
Didn't nvidia come right out and say (8 months ago) that they were shopping elsewhere because the price TSMC was charging for 7nm...?
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No.

w0lfram said:
And, nobody has mentioned the fact that Dr Lisa Su signed a deal with TSMC over 3 years ago, for exclusive rights for 7nm TSMC in 2018.
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Lisa Su didn't sign any "exclusive" deals with TSMC either.

w0lfram said:
Which didn't allow Nvidia to adopt and have volume orders last year. Thus, forcing Nvidia to seek Samsung and belay their new architecture. Which is still being shopped around, as nobody has heard of Ampere/Hopper being taped out.
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The only thing which is "delaying" NV's next gen architecture right now is the apparent inability of all of NV's competitors to beat whatever products NV has currently on 16/12nm. Some of said competitors aren't able to beat NV's products even with the help of said 7nm production process.
 
w0lfram said:
And, nobody has mentioned the fact that Dr Lisa Su signed a deal with TSMC over 3 years ago, for exclusive rights for 7nm TSMC in 2018. Which didn't allow Nvidia to adopt and have volume orders last year.
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Not true. No such agreement exists (and its punishable by law BTW)

w0lfram said:
Thus, forcing Nvidia to seek Samsung and belay their new architecture. Which is still being shopped around, as nobody has heard of Ampere/Hopper being taped out.
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Nope. Ampere taped out on March 2019.
 
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