Nvidia giving free GPU samples to reviewers that follow procedure

Discussion in 'PC Industry' started by Lurkmass, Dec 11, 2020.

Tags:
  1. Rootax

    Veteran Newcomer

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2006
    Messages:
    2,079
    Likes Received:
    1,519
    Location:
    France

    Yeah, they mention it during the conclusion, but it's bs not showing results with RT. Then they will not understand why nividia is pissed...
     
    Kyyla, pjbliverpool, pharma and 2 others like this.
  2. PSman1700

    Veteran Newcomer

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2019
    Messages:
    4,657
    Likes Received:
    2,123
    BFV without DXR hmmmm. I still play this in MP, no way i wouldnt without DXR. Theres no real reason not to seeing the performance these GPUs achieve in these somewhat older games.
    Same for Control, that game is basically the RT title (or one of them). Even the consoles are getting ray tracing in a patch there, we even got a teaser from it.

    Aside from that, 3070/6800 seem to be close enough in normal rendering. Nobody is going to seriously play at 1080p buying a graphics card in those price ranges, right?

    That said, the 6800 has the VRAM advantage, having 16gb's of it, double that of the 3070. If anything, thats something one might consider getting the 3070Ti for, or going for the 6800 over the 3070.

    NVs TF ratings seem quite where they should be imo. 3070 and 6800 are close enough in benchmarks at resolutions that matter. It seems that as resolutions/workload increases, Ampere has the advantage as an architecture.
     
  3. pjbliverpool

    pjbliverpool B3D Scallywag
    Legend

    Joined:
    May 8, 2005
    Messages:
    8,577
    Likes Received:
    2,941
    Location:
    Guess...
    Agreed. I never got involved in that whole Nvidia cutting them off debate but to be honest I really can't blame them. This is blatant skewing of results.
     
    PSman1700 likes this.
  4. Kaotik

    Kaotik Drunk Member
    Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2003
    Messages:
    9,814
    Likes Received:
    3,971
    Location:
    Finland
    Maybe you should have, because that makes you look like you have no clue on their channels content.
    They've done tons of RT (and DLSS) reviews, pretty deep diving too to the point where they dedicated complete video just for that with RTX 3080 review (and because of that, the actual 3080 review only skimmed the topic, which people tried to use as example of how HWU is biased, completely ignoring the accompanying but separate RT video).

    As for that particular video, yes, they probably should have inlcuded 1 or 2 RT titles (which would be about correct % of 40 games for this years RT games supposedly, someone counted out of 200 most reviewed games of 2020 8 had it), but as they've stated, in their opinion and their usual viewers opinion, RT at this time still isn't good enough (=impact on graphics compared to performance loss) and rasterization is still far more important.
    Why don't people complain about rasterization not getting the share it "should have" based on games on the market in reviews, which have several RT titles more than "they should have" included? Why should RT be overpresented everywhere compared to how many titles actually support it?
     
    Wesker and Panino Manino like this.
  5. DavidGraham

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2009
    Messages:
    3,528
    Likes Received:
    4,177
    This is the most pathetic excuse I have ever seen, 40 games that extend several years in the past and that also include no less than 4 titles that already have RT and you want and support no coverage or limited coverage of RT. Talk about selective biased journalism of the highest order.
    But almost no decent coverage of the wide RT performance divide between AMD and NVIDIA, and now they sank even lower, a 1 vs 1 GPU coverage with zero RT tests as if it doesn't even exist, if that doesn't illicit a violent response from someone I don't know what will.
     
    #365 DavidGraham, Dec 30, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2020
  6. Svensk Viking

    Regular

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2009
    Messages:
    575
    Likes Received:
    160
    Yeah, they've showed the poll where few of their viewers care about raytracing at this point, and that's the important part here I think. They can actually claim to show their viewers what they are asking for, it's not their job to convince their viewers to make raytracing a priority, or any other tech that AMD or Nvidia decides to support in the future.

    And they actually did one video that focused on raytracing. But I can indeed buy the argument that their normal reviews can skip raytracing if the vast majority of their fans doesn't care about it.
     
    Kej, Silent_Buddha, Wesker and 2 others like this.
  7. Panino Manino

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2017
    Messages:
    97
    Likes Received:
    84
    More than one time was already explained and exemplified, that they prefer to make dedicated videos for RT.
    The sad thing is that when they eventually make one sooner showing AMD being crushed people will say, "see, they succumbed to Nvidia!".

    For me it's better this way, because rasterization is a separate story and people were very doubtful that AMD could even catch up with Nvidia on that. While everyone have their attentions focused on RT an the lack of competing DLSS solution they forget to notice this important milestone for AMD.
     
  8. Rootax

    Veteran Newcomer

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2006
    Messages:
    2,079
    Likes Received:
    1,519
    Location:
    France
    And they do, but it's dumb imo. People who don't know a lot will believe than the cards are pretty similar and voilà. When you make a video X vs Y, you should talk about what the cards are capable of... Even if yourself don't believe it's useful now.
     
  9. troyan

    Regular Newcomer

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2015
    Messages:
    338
    Likes Received:
    655
    Still no dedicated video for comparision raytracing between 3080 and 6800XT.

    20% of the used games have raytracing support. None was tested with raytracing.
     
  10. pjbliverpool

    pjbliverpool B3D Scallywag
    Legend

    Joined:
    May 8, 2005
    Messages:
    8,577
    Likes Received:
    2,941
    Location:
    Guess...
    I don't have any clue about their channels content beyond this one video. That's the entire reason why a key performance component shouldn't be excluded from a major analysis like this - because you can't guarantee a particular viewer will see your other piece that's dedicated to that component if there is one.

    This argument really doesn't hold water for me. It ignores the fact that there is a higher proportion of major releases with RT (the kind of game you buy a high end GPU for) and even more importantly it ignores the fact that the frequency of RT enabled games has picked up significantly recently and will continue to increase thanks to the new RT enabled consoles. It's likely that a very high proportion of new games released over the next couple of years will be RT enabled and that's exactly the period that you're going to be using one of these new GPU's for.
     
    DavidGraham and DegustatoR like this.
  11. Kaotik

    Kaotik Drunk Member
    Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2003
    Messages:
    9,814
    Likes Received:
    3,971
    Location:
    Finland
    You can't cover everything in every video, that's a hopeless cause. Even if they did include RT games there would be tons of other things one could bring up that particular video doesn't touch at all. What makes RT optimized for single manufacturer so special it needs to be included everywhere?

    Which is better, todays reviews for todays software or todays reviews trying to predict future? Especially with software* that has been only optimized for one manufacturers RT hardware, how well do you think they could ever represent games of tomorrow with RT designed to fit consoles and both manufacturers?

    *We're only now starting to get AMD optimized titles, 2 out there now but they've been dismissed by the RT-crowd because "they barely use RT at all".

    Titles ranging several years only shrink the percentage of RT games. Most of the rest is covered earlier in my post.

    Will you cry havoc if I link here tons of reviews which have disproportionate amount of time and games dedicated to RT? Or is it just that when RT isn't in your opinion covered enough, it's wrong? Also related stuff earlier in the post.
     
  12. ToTTenTranz

    Legend Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2008
    Messages:
    12,144
    Likes Received:
    7,107

    "Youtubers are bad, they're attacking developers! Here's a valid interview."

    Proceeds to post a link from nvidia.com.
     
    Wesker likes this.
  13. Panino Manino

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2017
    Messages:
    97
    Likes Received:
    84
    You're blaming HU for the faults of others (fanboys).
    They have their own way of working, you can't complain with them because someone ignorant that they even exist watched one single isolated video and got the wrong ideal about them. About them personally, instead of thinking about the results they presented in the video.
    You're talking just like those fanboys.
     
    Putas likes this.
  14. Rootax

    Veteran Newcomer

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2006
    Messages:
    2,079
    Likes Received:
    1,519
    Location:
    France
    Ok.
     
    pharma likes this.
  15. DavidGraham

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2009
    Messages:
    3,528
    Likes Received:
    4,177
    By optimized you mean using selective RT shadows? Is that optimization in your opinion?

    We have 3 AMD sponsored RT games so far:

    Dirt 5 only uses RT shadows for certain objects.

    Godfall only works on AMD GPUs, so we have no idea how it works on NVIDIA. Though it uses RT shadows in screen space.

    Riftbreaker uses extensive RT shadows, so NVIDIA GPUs get a big boost over AMD.

    We also have the 3D Mark test optimized for DXR1.1 repeating the same story of NVIDIA winning big over AMD.
    I know this one, test your damn hardware using the existing damn software and let the user decide .. instead of playing the arbiter over who will win future optimizations, of which all indication point to NVIDIA by the way in any serious RT workload. OR WORSE, completely ignoring the issue like a rabid fanboy choosing to live in a reality where his favorite GPU vendor doesn't lose big in an important metric.
     
    digitalwanderer likes this.
  16. trinibwoy

    trinibwoy Meh
    Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2004
    Messages:
    11,213
    Likes Received:
    1,792
    Location:
    New York
    This sums up this entire thread and all similar threads on every forum on the internet. It was inevitable though unless AMD surprised with their first RT implementation.
     
    DavidGraham likes this.
  17. Kaotik

    Kaotik Drunk Member
    Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2003
    Messages:
    9,814
    Likes Received:
    3,971
    Location:
    Finland
    Oh, forgot Riftbreakers. By "AMD optimized" I mean developer worked with AMD instead of NVIDIA, just like by "NVIDIA optimized" I mean on all the other titles which were developed working solely with NVIDIA.

    3DMark uses DXR 1.1 API, it doesn't "optimize for DXR 1.1" and the API doesn't dictate what kind of workloads you create

    Huh? Where on earth have I tried to be "arbiter over future optimizations"? Because I doubt first gen NVIDIA optimized RT titles will represent the future RT titles well?
    I'm the exact opposite if anything, calling to test with todays software without overly focusing on single relatively fresh feature which is implemented in only handful of games today, and in most of those few that it is, it's been optimized for a single manufacturers implementation*.
    I'm not against RT and testing it, but I do think like HWU and many others that current RT still takes too much performance for what it's offering in current software, and I don't see it as a necessity in every review, versus or not, considering how overrepresented it's overall (for my priorities, yours may differ).
    Also I have no issues with NVIDIA being faster in RT, I just don't think they're fast enough yet either (or then the devs still need to learn full bags of new tricks to make current hardware work faster and do more, which ever gets us to making RT more impactful without making even $1.5k card crawl)

    *And no, this doesn't mean I'm criticizing their optimizations, there was no other hardware so obviously they could only optimize for NVIDIA. In finnish I would say "vittu kun täytyy kaikki vääntää rautalangasta väärinymmärtäjien takia", not quite sure how to get the real feeling behind it translated, but it revolves around how annoying it is when you need to clear pretty much every single damn thing separately just to stop people from (purposely or not) misunderstanding every single thing to some mean "fanboyish" crap.
     
    Wesker likes this.
  18. DavidGraham

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2009
    Messages:
    3,528
    Likes Received:
    4,177
    Over a dozen titles is not handful of games, period.

    Nope, as I have shown you, optimized for one manufacturer is not the full story of it, AMD is the one with the much weaker RT hardware, optimizing for it often means a minimalist RT approach, in any decent capacity NVIDIA will always come out on top, and by a significant margin.

    No it was optimized for DXR1.1 even AMD advertised it.

    Who said focus? they completely neglected it!! As if it doesn't exist at all! despite using no less than 10 RT games their test suite! A fair reviewer would have tested at least 6 RT games.
     
    pharma and Rootax like this.
  19. Kaotik

    Kaotik Drunk Member
    Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2003
    Messages:
    9,814
    Likes Received:
    3,971
    Location:
    Finland
    Compared to the mass of games released without in same time frame, it is.
    No, it's not the full story, but it can twist the story.
    You don't optimize for API, you use API, no matter who's saying or advertising it. If they actually said "optimized for DXR 1.1" it was probably PR-speak for "uses new features in DXR 1.1".

    edit: late addition: some "optimization for API" can be done if you're moving from one API to another which wants to do things differently, but it doesn't apply in this case, as DXR 1.1 is superset of 1.0, it just adds new things on top of it, old things work the same way as they did on 1.0.

    Yes, they completely neglected it in that review. Countless reviews overrepresent it. I don't see you complaining about the latter, only the former, why is that?
    Pick your poison, look at the reviews which suit your game/settings test. Ignore HWU if it doesn't represent your priorities, other people have different priorities and for many they're same or similar to HWU, too.
    Why would "at least 6 RT games" be fair, but "0" is not? 0 is actually closer to the percentage of games with RT even just this year and even closer if you take games since first RT game launched. That would be pretty much only available objective meter for what's what.
     
    #379 Kaotik, Dec 30, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2020
    Putas likes this.
  20. NightAntilli

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2015
    Messages:
    104
    Likes Received:
    131
    This is only a big deal because it is nVidia tech. If RT was AMD only tech, no one would give a shit and everyone would be arguing the exact opposite of what is being argued now. This is how it has gone historically, and sadly, nothing has changed.

    There is nothing as sad in this space, as people defending a corporation over an independent reviewer. Not only that, but actually going as far as blaming the reviewer for the actions of the corporation is nasty. And even worse, people that think that Hardware Unboxed is in the right are shamed, slandered and bullied. There is one group of people that exhibits this type of behavior... That group is called narcissists.
     
Loading...

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Beyond3D has been around for over a decade and prides itself on being the best place on the web for in-depth, technically-driven discussion and analysis of 3D graphics hardware. If you love pixels and transistors, you've come to the right place!

    Beyond3D is proudly published by GPU Tools Ltd.
Loading...