Nvidia giving free GPU samples to reviewers that follow procedure

Discussion in 'PC Industry' started by Lurkmass, Dec 11, 2020.

Tags:
  1. Putas

    Regular Newcomer

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2004
    Messages:
    538
    Likes Received:
    183
    Yes.
     
    Wesker likes this.
  2. manux

    Veteran Regular

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2002
    Messages:
    2,857
    Likes Received:
    2,059
    Location:
    Earth
    Wasn't gamers nexus conclusion if you need perf use it. It was literally said in the end. That's what dlss is for, added performance with some compromises due to how performance is achieved. Sometimes better than native, sometimes worse as pointed out by gamers nexus. Though in case of cp2077 there is no native by default, it's TAA vs. DLSS. Both integrate multiple frames together. TAA has its own flaws as shown in video.

    The digs towards nvidia were deserved. Didn't bother me.
     
    NightAntilli, Wesker, Malo and 2 others like this.
  3. troyan

    Regular Newcomer

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2015
    Messages:
    345
    Likes Received:
    672
    No, i say that these reviewers should talk to the developers when they are calling their work and effort "worthless".
    KeokeN Interactive is an indie developer who has updated their game for the pc plattform with raytracing and DLSS. Getting called out and critized for this is hurting the pc plattform.
     
    #343 troyan, Dec 18, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2020
    xpea, pharma and PSman1700 like this.
  4. trinibwoy

    trinibwoy Meh
    Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2004
    Messages:
    11,219
    Likes Received:
    1,807
    Location:
    New York
    Ok, fair enough. So the comparison is RT on vs RT off? DF has a few videos out covering cyberpunk visuals. You should check them out. Their take is that the game looks great without RT but RT adds another level of accuracy for shadows and reflections. They actually touted volumetrics as the most impressive visual flair in the game.

    Well the PS4 is apparently running at 720p with terrible TAA and world detail turned way down (fewer cars, people, clutter etc) so it’s no comparison.
     
    PSman1700 likes this.
  5. Kaotik

    Kaotik Drunk Member
    Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2003
    Messages:
    9,819
    Likes Received:
    3,976
    Location:
    Finland
    No, it's not hurting the PC platform. If reviewer thinks implementation of something, no matter what it is, isn't worth it, they can and should say it out loud. And yes, every reviewer is entitled to their own opinions, no matter if you like their opinions or not*.
    It's literally the point of reviews to call out these things, be it good or bad, for the product in review. They're not an advertising network for hardware and games.

    And again, can you please show where they call it "worthless", or is this just your exaggaration?

    *clear bias by reviewer needs to be of course also called out by readers, but HUB hasn't done anything suggesting a bias. They've gone through countless hours of testing RT and DLSS, with and without each other, in probably every single supported game out there to form their opinion on it.
     
    Wesker likes this.
  6. trinibwoy

    trinibwoy Meh
    Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2004
    Messages:
    11,219
    Likes Received:
    1,807
    Location:
    New York
    God why didn’t AMD just match Nvidia’s RT performance so we could avoid all this stupidity.
     
  7. troyan

    Regular Newcomer

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2015
    Messages:
    345
    Likes Received:
    672
    Here:


    And then look at this comparision from "Deliver us the Moon": https://imgsli.com/MzQwMTY
    Do you think you cant notice the visual difference with Raytracing?

    "Deliver us the Moon" is a showcase title for Raytracing.
     
    DavidGraham, pharma and PSman1700 like this.
  8. PSman1700

    Veteran Newcomer

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2019
    Messages:
    4,685
    Likes Received:
    2,131
    They think its a game changer.

    There is no more PS4 version to speak off. And rightfully so.

    All RDNA2 gpus have hardware RT, all next gen consoles do, all ampere gpus have it. Heck, it wouldnt suprise me if mobile phones get it soon. All with varied performance differences. All are aboard the same train. If i go out and get a 6800XT i invested and partially paid for RT functionality, same for the other hardwares.

    Theres no need for warring for or against RT.
     
  9. trinibwoy

    trinibwoy Meh
    Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2004
    Messages:
    11,219
    Likes Received:
    1,807
    Location:
    New York
    No need at all. It’s pretty obvious to me that the debate isn’t really about RT but thinly veiled rehashes of IHV preferences. It’s very tiresome.

    Yes Nvidia is going to hype RT because they invested in it and currently have an advantage. That in itself will cause an allergic reaction for some folks. But the tech itself is solid and it’s almost certain that the future of lighting in games will be based on some sort of RT.
     
  10. Kaotik

    Kaotik Drunk Member
    Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2003
    Messages:
    9,819
    Likes Received:
    3,976
    Location:
    Finland
    In which language does
    "the main advantage though of the geforce gpu as i see it is the more mature ray tracing support and of course dlss 2.0 though both are questionable features and in our opinion aren't major selling points unless you play a specific selection of games basically what i mean by that is the game support list is just too limited dlss 2.0 is amazing it's just not enough games there are even less games where you can really enjoy ray traced effects the best aaa implementations that we've seen so far at least in our opinion is watch dogs legion and control though again the performance hit is massive but at least you can notice the effects in those titles"
    (straight from youtube transcript)

    Translate into "RT & DLSS in Deliver us the Moon is worthless" ?
    Or even more general "RT & DLSS are worthless"?
     
    Wesker likes this.
  11. troyan

    Regular Newcomer

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2015
    Messages:
    345
    Likes Received:
    672
    Did HUB test "Deliver us the Moon"? Did he think that the reflections are not noticeable?!

    I have been playing the game since the patch and Raytracing is noticeable from the first minute.
     
  12. PSman1700

    Veteran Newcomer

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2019
    Messages:
    4,685
    Likes Received:
    2,131
    AMD isnt even doing 'bad' in ray tracing, its up to what a turing gpu did. Their 6800 series are up to sniff imo. Godfall has ray tracing going for amd pc version, before nvidia users get it.

    @Kaotik If ray tracing and reconstruction tech are questionable features, then why is AMD also investing into those? They have hardware RT ready, and their promising a DLSS like feature. Sony and MS offer it, and intel is rumoured to be doing so too.

    What is the problem? :p
     
  13. Kaotik

    Kaotik Drunk Member
    Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2003
    Messages:
    9,819
    Likes Received:
    3,976
    Location:
    Finland
    Just because something is questionable at the moment doesn't mean it won't be viable in the future. It's more relevant for many to consider these things from todays perspective rather than some arbitrary date in the uncertain future.
    Of course RT will become bigger and bigger thing in the future, but that's the future. Current hardware and software on is still relatively in it's infancy and for many the performance hit simply isn't worth it.
    As for DLSS and the like, I expect every solution to degrade image quality due artifacts just like DLSS does, and I hope games won't ever be developed (on PC anyway) aiming at everyone using some "AI"-scalers, CP2077 looks almost as if it was. I want the devs to have full control on rendering, which you don't have with DLSS (and probably won't have on equivalent competing technologies either)

    Haven't checked what games they've reviewed, shouldn't you be the one checking these things since you're the one making claims about HUB?
    And just because reflections are there it doesn't mean they're necessarily noticeable to every gamer (as in, they're not something everyone necessarily notices unless they specifically look for it)
     
    Wesker likes this.
  14. PSman1700

    Veteran Newcomer

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2019
    Messages:
    4,685
    Likes Received:
    2,131
    Yes, im not saying or disagreeing if its worth the impact on performance or not, since that seems subjective. I think its worth it, another doesnt. Thats why you have choices, even on console.
    What i mean is, if we like it or not, ray tracing is on every piece of hardware today for gaming (Ampere, RDNA2, next gen consoles), and all have software/games on them with the option for ray tracing. Its kinda in its infancy yes, but everyone is on the same boat.....
    You could have a point if consoles didnt have hardware ray tracing, cause then the baseline is kinda.... ye, then it could be a problem. But now ALL are in it. And its going to see usage.
    I just cant see it happening that ray tracing, in special on consoles, is going to get unused in some years. Devs will find ways to implement it, even if its lower quaility/subtle like reflections in spiderman, it still looks better then without.

    Its the same for reconstruction, its kinda a must, or do we want 1440p native for the rest of the generation on consoles?

    Edit:



    See DFs video, they like the raytracing and reconstruction tech in this one. For good reasons, because those enhance graphics and performance.
     
    #354 PSman1700, Dec 18, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2020
  15. Kaotik

    Kaotik Drunk Member
    Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2003
    Messages:
    9,819
    Likes Received:
    3,976
    Location:
    Finland
    Yes, "everything" supports RT now. Except vast majority of gaming machines out there. It will be years before you can ignore pre-RT PC hardware and last gen consoles (even if it's easier on consoles).
    We're all in the same boat, but that doesn't mean everyone expects the boat to sail to the same port, at least not at the same time. It's entirely possible that current generation RT hardware won't ever cut it for many gamers for RT, unless there's some revolution on software side that allows them to do a lot more with a lot less. It's not just about better, it's about better at reasonable performance hit, which again is of course subjective.
    But I'm not sure how any of that has anything to do with HUB and their point that currently it's not a major selling point and are questionable features unless you happen to play exactly those few titles.

    Consoles have always made compromises on pretty much everything, including resolution, they don't need to affect PC side of things.
     
    PSman1700 likes this.
  16. Wesker

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    May 3, 2008
    Messages:
    159
    Likes Received:
    76
    Some final thoughts before I archive this topic.

    Yes, absolutely this.
    We had the “AMD Defence Force” for a few years, trying their best to defend Phenom, Bulldozer, Mantle, Vega, Zen 1 and so on, and now we have to deal with the “Nvidia Defence Force.” It just gets tiring and stupid, and the discussion just isn’t worthy to be on a place like Beyond3D. That level of scarecrowing and shilling deserves to stay on reddit forums, not here.

    It is possible to be a fan of ray tracing and ML-based filtering techniques, but not a fan of the contemporary implementations of these technologies.

    For example, I love big, power-hungry GPUs; but that doesn’t mean I have to be a fan of chips like R600, Fermi, Fiji, Kepler, Vega, and Ampere.

    This is probably one of the worst takes in this entire thread, and a fine example of what I’m talking about.


    Anyway, it’ll be interesting to see how or what AMD has up their sleeves in terms of a competitor to DLSS. It should be interesting, and I kind of realised that DLSS would probably benefit (in relative terms) Navi 2nd gen more than it would Ampere.

    It’s pretty obvious, even when we just focus on rasterisation performance, that Navi 2nd gen struggles to scale performance up as resolution increases. Navi, even at a lower power budget, can outperform Ampere at 1080p and 1440p, but concedes performance (at a pretty noticeable margin) at 4K. If Navi 2nd gen could do DLSS, then it should address whatever bottlenecks the uarch is running into at 4K — with all things being equal (not sure if this can hold, but we’ll see).
     
    ToTTenTranz and NightAntilli like this.
  17. trinibwoy

    trinibwoy Meh
    Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2004
    Messages:
    11,219
    Likes Received:
    1,807
    Location:
    New York
    HWUB spends quite a bit of time on RT in their latest Q&A. They’re obviously very cagey about the topic now after the episode with nvidia.

     
  18. NightAntilli

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2015
    Messages:
    104
    Likes Received:
    131
  19. techuse

    Regular Newcomer

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2013
    Messages:
    786
    Likes Received:
    471
  20. DavidGraham

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2009
    Messages:
    3,542
    Likes Received:
    4,216
    Kyyla, Picao84, chris1515 and 4 others like this.
Loading...

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Beyond3D has been around for over a decade and prides itself on being the best place on the web for in-depth, technically-driven discussion and analysis of 3D graphics hardware. If you love pixels and transistors, you've come to the right place!

    Beyond3D is proudly published by GPU Tools Ltd.
Loading...