Nvidia G71 - rumours, questions and whatnot

Discussion in 'Pre-release GPU Speculation' started by ToxicTaZ, Dec 4, 2005.

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  1. ToxicTaZ

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    NVIDIA CFO Marv Burkett and VP Michael Hara at CSFB Annual Technology Conference 2005 revealed more about the GeForce 7 series where the 90nm G72 (GeForce 7200) and G73 (GeForce 7600) will be announced in Q1 next year. G72 will be 64-bit and support TurboCache technology. Marv Burkett revealed that GeForce 7200 and 7600 series will last between one to one and half year. G71 will be 90nm and is expected to be much higher clocked at 750MHz. As for G80, the development process has been smooth and is slated for mid 2006 release which i suppose during Computex 2006. Also G80 will support Shader Model 4.0.

    Here use this to translat with...
    http://www.worldlingo.com/en/websites/url_translator.html

    http://www.hkepc.com/bbs/viewthread....extra=page=1

    http://www.mchsi.com/desmet/outgoing_window/dvhardware.net

    http://www.vr-zone.com.sg/?i=3005

    This card could look like this in April 2006?

    Nvidia GeForce 7900 Ultra @750MHz / 1.9GHz 256-bit 512MB GDDR 3 SDRAM 1ns (Samsung K4J52324QC-BJ10) 1000MHz

    http://www.samsung.com/Products/Semiconductor/GraphicsMemory/index.htm
     
    #1 ToxicTaZ, Dec 4, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 4, 2005
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  2. ^eMpTy^

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    If true, how would a 750Mhz 24 pipe G71 stack up to the rumored specs of R580?
     
  3. ANova

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    Not well. I think the G71 will be a 32 pipe part though.
     
  4. Rys

    Rys Moderator
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    Who says there's 24 of anything on that chip? I'm entirely unconvinced they're just using 90nm to get clocks for this refresh. They're using die space too, for yet more processing units, if you ask me.
     
  5. ^eMpTy^

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    The impression I've gotten is that R580 will have 48 shading pipes...or shader processors? in any case, is this expected to translate directly to performance? or is it expected to be bottlenecked by something?
     
  6. Rys

    Rys Moderator
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    16 shader processors, each with a triplet of ALUs. 48 ALUs total. And that's just the beginning. Good thread here about it (among a trillion others).

    It'll be bottlenecked by software, if anything. We'll see soon enough.
     
  7. BRiT

    BRiT Verified (╯°□°)╯
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    Most likely by the CPU ?
     
  8. Dave Baumann

    Dave Baumann Gamerscore Wh...
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    48 or 96?

    Well, on current software something of that configuration would likely to be bottlenecked by it texture capabilities.
     
  9. Rys

    Rys Moderator
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    I like to think of the 'sub' ALU pairings as the single unit to count. So 48 ALUs, but 96 instructions per cycle (only 48 MADs, though). As you well know :lol: 24 ALUs, 48 instructions (all MADs theoretically) for G70. That's not counting free FP16 normalise, or input modifiers or scalars, to keep it simple.

    And bottlenecked because of software, not by. Bad language on my part.
     
  10. Dave Baumann

    Dave Baumann Gamerscore Wh...
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    Ahhh, but would that not be 192 instructions per cycle, peak... or even 256 if you want to add in branching and texture instructions...!
     
  11. Rys

    Rys Moderator
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  12. ^eMpTy^

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    So I must confess that I've kinda lost track of how to describe the capabilities of a GPU now that the reign of fillrate is over...can anyone recommend a good place to read up on such things?
     
  13. Geo

    Geo Mostly Harmless
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    O RLY? - 1

    :lol:
     
  14. Rys

    Rys Moderator
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    Nope, not that I know of.
     
  15. ^eMpTy^

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    ...that's what I get for being vague...

    To be more specific: I know what an ALU is, I have an idea what a fragment pipeline is, I don't know what a MAD is, nor do I understand how all these things work together or how they relate to performance in modern games...

    Know any articles that might piece that together for me? And now that ROPs are no longer 1:1 with fragment pipes, what should I call the rate at which fragment pipes make whatever it is that they make? shader operations/sec?
     
  16. Rys

    Rys Moderator
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    It's still fragments per cycle of output. It's just that texel rate and pixel fill aren't going to have the same number these days.

    It's good to be talking about a shader rate (instructions per something, math ops per something, tex ops per something, etc), if nothing else, IMO.

    As for MAD (and friends, like mul, add, sin/cos, texldd, etc), they're all shader instructions to be executed by the shader processors and any ALUs therein. So game performance is now, in a general sense, a product of how many of a given mix of those instructions you can process in a given time period, or at once, be they math and/or texture ops in the shader code. That's your shader rate (further defined by the branching performance these days, too), and then pixel output rate at the end.
     
  17. ^eMpTy^

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    that actually makes a tremendous amount of sense...

    so then a "shader processor" contains ALUs, the type and number of which determine the amount of shader operations of various types that can be performed per clock? and then texture units are a separate entity? with ROPs at the end actually pushing out the pixels? right?

    where do the terms "vertex pipeline" and "fragment pipeline" fix into this? is a vertex pipeline just a vector ALU? and is a fragment pipeline just a shader processor?

    (thanks for letting me pick your brain)
     
  18. Ailuros

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    Yes and it tells me that the gap between future competing chips is shrinking quite a lot in that department and it comes down to clock frequency difference more than anything else.

    That of course if there aren't any significant internal architectural changes for either/or which are quite unlikely with refreshes anyway.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------

    As for the hypothetical 750MHz it would make more sense IMO if we'd be talking about the same amount of units as on G70. For a followup with more quads/units such a frequency smells like extremely bad yields IMO.
     
  19. Ailuros

    Ailuros Epsilon plus three
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    Have you tried reading the G70 and R520 architectural analysis here at B3D in the according reviews? Granted my head boils too with every reading attempt, but they do help understanding at least a few aspects.

    ***edit: a sterile calculation concentrating exclusively on MADDs (multiply + add) could be:

    48 * 4 MADDs = 192 MADDs/clock
    G70 = 24 * 8 MADDs = 192 MADDs/clock

    but now you have only half the data since texture ops haven't been taken under account and no clock frequencies. For the first I'd use anything above 625MHz, for the second either 430 or 550MHz. For the G7x-followup you could speculate either 192 * 0.75GHz or 256 * 0.55GHz or something along that line, but there's still the texture OP math missing.
     
    #19 Ailuros, Dec 4, 2005
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  20. JoshMST

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    Wow, I guess if NV is able to get the top end huge chip to 750 MHz, I would be impressed. I was expecting more around 700 MHz. Still, they did surprise most of us with the 550 MHz 7800, so it definitely sounds like a distinct possibility.

    I also agree with Rys, NVIDIA would be silly to not include new functional units with the die size savings of using the 90 nm process. 400 M transistors here we come!

    Looking back, its actually quite amazing what NV and ATI have done with the 130 nm process. NV30 was 120 M trans, NV35 was 125 M trans, NV40 was 225 M, and the 110 nm G70 was 302 M trans. Do you think we can expect a factor of 3 in transistor increases from the first gen of 90 nm to the final 80 nm part? Do both ATI and NV have the ability within the next three years to produce a 1 Billion transistor GPU?
     
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