Nvidia DLSS antialiasing discussion *spawn*

Discussion in 'Architecture and Products' started by DavidGraham, Sep 19, 2018.

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  1. PSman1700

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    DF was praising DLSS2 as the second coming awhile ago. It can be argued if its more important then ray tracing even. I dont get that one person here tries to argue its bad in any way.
     
  2. Leoneazzurro5

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    I have Control i.e. and no, DLSS is not better than native. Minecraft? Don't make me laugh. Cease Nvidia marketing.
     
  3. Leoneazzurro5

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    No one is arguing it is bad. On the opposite, I have already said it is good (as a very good compromise between IQ and performance), personally at least.I am arguing with people (some of them are clearly Nvidia marketing people, judging by their absolute positions) saying DLSS is in any case better than native resolution. Even with clear examples of the opposite (which none of them disproved, and they claim things without giving any practical example).

    PS: If some reviewer sees it as the second coming, there are other reviewers which have a more realistic view of it.
     
    #1343 Leoneazzurro5, Dec 1, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2020
  4. DavidGraham

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    Once more no. Yes DLSS 2 has artifacts and problems, yet they are fewer than those of native + TAA. The titles I mentioned have been tested by media outlets, and their conclusions are contradictory to your statement.

    Some recent titles include Xuan-Yuan Sword, and also GhostRunner.

    https://www.dsogaming.com/pc-perfor...an-sword-vii-dlss-2-0-ray-tracing-benchmarks/

    https://www.dsogaming.com/articles/ghostrunner-dlss-2-0-ray-tracing-benchmarks/
     
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  5. Leoneazzurro5

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    Lol, so by your own link they say "close to native", "almost identical". So basically they say they are NOT the same but with minimal loss, certainly not better than native (the "more reflective says nothing, maybe they should even have not been SO reflective like DLSS makes them). Exactly the opposite of what you affirmed. And this in "one of the best implementations".
    Again, stop this marketing shill. Yes, DLSS may be a very good option and for many people should be activated. The "better than native" is bullshit. Period.

    PS: if you want to see a IQ reduction in Control, simply use DLSS and look at the writings on the walls (especally in the case of fire estinguishers and such). Activate it and deactivate it. It's perceivable. Then it's shit? No, and I never said that.
     
  6. OlegSH

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    Just read guerilla games presentation on Horizon, they actually accumulate samples for just 2 frames, Death Stranding uses the same AA without FXAA preprocessing step, hence image is super sharp in Death Stranding with TAA, it's also quite unstable and there is a lot of aliasing, shimmering and flickering everywhere.
    DLSS obviously accumulates samples over much longer frames sequences, that's why it produces way more temporarily stable images during motion and it can even reconstruct subpixel details on static shots, the stuff you can't achieve with neighborhood color clamping in TAA.

    Wrong, Filmic SMAA 2x actually does some quincunx sample aggregation for low frequency details hence it makes certain surfaces look blurrier for the filmic look.
    As for temporal reuse, it does temporal accumulation just for 2 frames as the name suggests, it also does image preprocessing with morphological SMAA prior to sample accumulation.
    You can get better texture crispness with DLSS by simply tweaking texture lod bias - https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/...g-discussion-spawn.60896/page-62#post-2178969
     
  7. Leoneazzurro5

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    Yeah, yeah. That is why the reviews say that in DS there are artifacts when moving (flickering and shimmering) that are not present without it. Or we can take a look at the Ars technica review

    https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2020...of-death-stranding-is-the-definitive-version/

    "The above image is taken from PS4, and you'll notice a sparkling effect of particles on the open bodybag, generated in part by rain falling all around. It's the kind of detail Kojima Productions likely agonized over to get right, since the studio is obsessed with visual storytelling (and this moment is a reveal of a major supernatural force). Nvidia's DLSS, unfortunately, gets confused by this field of sparkling pixels and messes it up, turning the exposed body into a simple, black mass. Other moments and entities in the game, particularly the swirling-particle creatures known as BTs, suffer from similar issues when put through the DLSS wringer, though in many cases, these occur during live gameplay and are thus less noticeable."

    And again, the CoD pictures I linked before were taken from the game. When you can provide an image from CoD game showing a better IQ with DLSS than native, I will believe you.
    And I really stop here, I'm getting really tired of this.
     
  8. NightAntilli

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    Blind test for DLSS... Feel free to tell me which is DLSS, which is native. The third one, you can guess what it is. These are not mine since I don't have a DLSS capable card... In case anyone knows where I got it from, I also scrambled them, to make sure it is different from its original source.

    A:
    [​IMG]

    B:
    [​IMG]

    C:
    [​IMG]
     
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  9. CarstenS

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    I would characterize this not as more reflective, but as oversharpening artifacts. Additionally, the mesh-pattern in some of the light effects seem noticeably lower res (larger squares) for the DLSS-shots. Haven't played the game, but judging from the screenshots I am not sure if I would enable DLSS here.
     
  10. Remij

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    #1 = native
    #2 = 1440p + RIS or CAS
    #3 = DLSS
     
  11. Scott_Arm

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    Hmmm, B looks like no AA. A looks softer and C looks like it has a bit of aliasing and some sharpening. I could honestly guess either way because some people think DLSS looks like it has sharpening, but also sometimes it can look softer.
     
  12. techuse

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    Middle one looks the worst by far. The first and third each have their own pros and cons. I prefer the first overall.

    1. Native
    2. UE4 temporal upscaling
    3. DLSS
     
  13. Kaotik

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    What is in this context considered native, no AA at all or some sort of other AA-mode like TAA?
     
  14. NightAntilli

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    Ok. I'll spill the beans a little bit. Two of them are 4K, one has some form of AA (I will reveal what it is later), the other one does not, and the other is DLSS.
     
  15. trinibwoy

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    I don't see how the middle one could be either 4K or DLSS. The aliasing is terrible and too low frequency for 4K.
     
  16. techuse

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    Is DLSS considered a 4K image here? But i guess you’re implying

    1. 4K TAA
    2. 4K no AA
    3. DLSS
     
  17. NightAntilli

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    Yup. It's those three options. The DLSS one is upscaled to 4K, meaning not native 4K, while the other two are native 4K.
     
  18. Man from Atlantis

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    Deliver Us the Moon, (my own shots)
    2700X @PBO, 4*8GB 3066MHz CL12,
    RTX 2060 @2025-2040/8000MHz

    2560*1080 no AA
    [​IMG]

    2560*1080 TAA High
    [​IMG]

    2560*1080 DLSS Quality
    [​IMG]

    2560*1080 no AA
    [​IMG]

    2560*1080 TAA High
    [​IMG]

    2560*1080 DLSS Quality
    [​IMG]
     
    #1358 Man from Atlantis, Dec 2, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2020
  19. Dictator

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    Which internal resolution is DLSS is that? Quality mode? Performance mode?
     
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  20. OlegSH

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    The first image is DLSS Quality - it doesn't miss high contrast light lamps on the ceiling. TAA usually misses such high contrast edges in most cases unless some morphological AA is applied prior to TAA.
    The second one seems to be 4K no AA mode. The third one is 4K with TAA
     
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