Nvidia DLSS antialiasing discussion *spawn*

Websites should do DSR shots for comparison ...

 

Err, what? Last time I checked things tend to lose details the further away they are in real life too, and in that particular scene with bright light relative to scene blasting on to said building there's no way they should be that defined.

 

NVIDIA DLSS 2.0 Behind the Scenes – How the Magic Happens

https://wccftech.com/nvidia-dlss-2-0-behind-the-scenes-how-the-magic-happens/

 

DLSS 2.0 works great in "Deliver us the Moon". One picture is 1080 with TAA, the other is 4K with DLSS@Performance:

 

Not sure if this is fully comparable to what's happening on that Youngblood scene, but DLSS does seem to conjure up some detail that TAA cannot at a 100% resolution:



A notable dowside of DLSS here is that those white lines from the realms of super resolution are quite prone to breaking in motion.

 

Isn't that true for either DLSS or TAA? The white lines are present in the first (TAA) and second (DLSS) images.

 

Interesting reading, but there's a real problem with how DLSS is being talked about at the moment. eg

"The image comparisons below are thoroughly impressive, surpassing even native images more often than not while doing a 4x upscaling from 540p to 1080p."
​

TAA is being applied and that's blurry. Why is DLSS constantly being compared to TAA processed images and no other AA modes, or even zero AA? I mean, 4K viewed from a reasonable distance isn't going to see an awful lot of jaggies.

 

Aside from TAA I think the only other comparison currently made is against TAAU. Video started at 39:28.

 

Probably because most engines only have visuals which work due to TAA. UE4, idtech, frostbite, northlight, etc. have all designed many of their effects (ambient occlusion, reflections, transparency rendering, etc.) around stochastic accumulation and then cleaning that up with TAA. If you turn off TAA in these games, most of their effects works breaks. So there is really no alternative to TAA in many of these game engines, or if you choose to not use TAA (like turning it off in an ini file), then you have a dramatically worse looking game that no amount of MSAA or FXAA could save.

 

I guess so, but as TAA misses the lines altogether or draws them more faintly, the breaking in motion doesn't really stand out as much. Strong lines breaking in motion does.

Just to clarify, the point of the post was to show that DLSS manages to draw detail that is missing in1440p TAA image but appears when we bump the resolution scale to 200% (2880p).

When I noticed these white lines as a difference between DLSS and TAA earlier, I was curious whether DLSS is drawing detail that shouldn't be there. Testing with an image closer to ground truth revealed that DLSS was indeed doing the better job here.

 

How ironic that we push for higher resolution and then blur the results.

I very hope AMD can do something similar to DLSS and bring their own version to consoles. We'll get a very different experience combining NN with heuristics as a standard render target, and the results from NN are now really promising. Imagine 10+ TFs of rendering power only needing to target a 720p (or lower!) framebuffer; that'll be equivalent to 40 TFs rendering power at 1080p in terms of shader potential. Whereas for PC games, they are still targeting rendering higher resolution and just have the option for more frames when using DLSS.

 

It's tough ask for consoles lacking tensor core like operations. One would have to compare the tensor core flops/tops to what shaders on console can do. MS does have their 4x 8bit math instructions but that still falls quite ways short. But maybe they can figure out cheaper NN to do similar and optimize more as they have closed box instead of a lineup of hardware.

Maybe DNN's is the sauce that allows for next next generation or pro model without having to make hw that much more expensive. Add fancy neural network based software and NN acceleration hw.

 

RTX 2060 @2070/8000MHz, Blur and Film grain Off, Volumetric Lighting medium, rest is maxed out.

Control
2560x1080, NO DLSS, 35FPS, 0%
2560x1080, 1706x720 DLSS, 60FPS, +71%
2560x1080, 1484x626 DLSS, 73FPS, +109%
2560x1080, 1280x540 DLSS, 90FPS, +157%
2560x1080, 1280x540 NO DLSS, Sharpening @50%, 97FPS, +177%
2560x1080, 1280x540 NO DLSS, 102FPS, +191%

 

I visited that same scene in Youngblood:



TSSAA 8X vs DLSS Quality vs No AA. No sharpening of any kind.

That no AA shot pretty clearly reveals that we are indeed supposed to be seeing those antennae and the framing around the windows.

 

I can agree on the antennae, but not on the window framings, clearly they're mostly gone at that distance with no AA?

 

So now the problem is that DLSS is too good?

 

They are partially drawn and as the image slightly moves as the character sways, a different part of the line gets revealed. Looks to me the resolution just isn't high enough to complete the lines. I assume if I could bump it to 200% the lines would be more complete. Sadly, exceeding a 100% resolution scale seems a bit tricky in Youngblood. Might give it another try later.

Even if my assumption was wrong here I'm hard pressed to see how DLSS isn't the clear winner here. The wall looks detailed and complete to me and the lines are pretty subtle and not over-emphasized.

 

perhaps if you use DSR there and set smoothing to 0% to get 4x resolution but nearest neighbour scale?